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Post by hankinsfly on May 30, 2018 21:58:07 GMT -6
What about tippet ring size? Sighter material? Tippet diameter? Tungsten bead size? Dropper off the bend or dropper loop? European fly patterns or American?
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Post by turfdawg on May 31, 2018 4:26:39 GMT -6
Question(s) for everyone, 10 foot or 11 foot? 2 weight or 3 weight? If you were really into it and fished different waters you would need all. 10’ on small water and 11’ on large water plus different weight size for what you were casting, ect...... I would like to try a 2wt sometime.
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Post by turfdawg on May 31, 2018 4:54:47 GMT -6
What about tippet ring size? Sighter material? Tippet diameter? Tungsten bead size? Dropper off the bend or dropper loop? European fly patterns or American? You forgot bead color lol
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Post by mirvc17 on May 31, 2018 7:18:10 GMT -6
Misread...
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Post by mirvc17 on May 31, 2018 7:30:07 GMT -6
I think this can't be underestimated. Euro nymphing is a great technique that can be the go-to method on many rivers. Some of the pros can cast a Euro rig as much as 50-60 feet with a Euro style line, but that's not likely for most of us. Jeff's length is about max. Check this article: www.tacticalflyfisher.com/blog/rod-length-and-reach-a-trigonometry-perspective/Even if I use my 9' rod (which is all I have), I'm only 2 feet short compared to a 10.5' rod. Of course there are other benefits to a longer rod, but I digress... I haven't been Euro nymphing that long, but I found that it didn't work well for me on the S. Platte river in the water types we were fishing. Swinging wets, dry flies, and indicators worked better and allowed me to access water in which I would have had to wade deep and also spook fish. Bottom line, it works and its proven to get more fish to your net in many circumstances. IMO, it is not a more fun way to fish though. Lobbing flies just isn't as fun as casting wets, or even an indicator rig. Just my opinion. Just be ready to move around a lot because you won't be able to cast to as much water from one spot. For me, it's just another method I use when the conditions tell me it would be the best method. Anytime you have to fish more than about 25 feet away from you, you will need either a different technique or an indicator. Euro is more effective in pocket water (Conejos, Rio Grande). The tuck and lob casts will only go so far.....
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Post by golferjeff on May 31, 2018 12:47:59 GMT -6
I don't use it enough, but I need to do it more and get experience. I will be spending a fair amount of time on big pocket water rivers this summer (Conejos, Lower Rio Grande, LIvingstone) and this method would be a great addition to the arsenal. I have a 10'6 3wt Cortland that is built for tight lining. I love to move around anyway, so hitting a new pocket or run every few minutes sounds great to me.
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Post by mirvc17 on May 31, 2018 13:00:29 GMT -6
Yeah I guess they say that most fish are caught in that 20-40 foot range anyway?
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Post by turfdawg on May 31, 2018 16:08:06 GMT -6
Can I change my favorite from Euro to just no fly line (all mono past the eyes) fishing? Like JP states, I’m personally not good enough to tight line slow water or light weighted nymphs. For this type I still use a bobber. My wife’s rig for now is all mono with bobber but at the rate she’s going she might be pulling the bobber off this Fall.
I’m just an old fat man that likes fishing and gets lucky enough to catch a fish every now and then so fish how and with what you enjoy. I do however think even if you don’t like tight lining/ Euro everyone should at least try all mono with a indicator, split shot and nymph.
Bill
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Post by jonbo on May 31, 2018 16:18:03 GMT -6
I can't cast it! (with my 10' 4 wt BVK.) I do want to hit a spot 30 feet away, but I can't reach it, so, in frustration, I take that 20-some foot Tactical -whatever-it-is leader off and go back to my old fly-shop tapered leader.
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Post by dainw on May 31, 2018 17:54:51 GMT -6
Can I change my favorite from Euro to just no fly line (all mono past the eyes) fishing? Like JP states, I’m personally not good enough to tight line slow water or light weighted nymphs. For this type I still use a bobber. My wife’s rig for now is all mono with bobber but at the rate she’s going she might be pulling the bobber off this Fall. I’m just an old fat man that likes fishing and gets lucky enough to catch a fish every now and then so fish how and with what you enjoy. I do however think even if you don’t like tight lining/ Euro everyone should at least try all mono with a indicator, split shot and nymph. Bill Turfdawg, just curious here what would be the advantage of throwing a shot/indicator rig on all mono vs. having standard 9ft tapered leader set up? Is it just a personal preference thing or do you feel like it fishes better? Maybe less drag?
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Post by dainw on May 31, 2018 18:08:22 GMT -6
For those of you that are in the camp that there are certain water types where this is more effective than others (JP), couple of questions for you:
1. What would you say the ideal water type for this kind of fishing is? IMO riffles with moderate to shallow depth are ideal, at least from considering the physics of all of this. But I can’t say for sure having not tried this style of fishing before.
2. What is your plan B if you show up to a river, say one you don’t know that well, intending to euro nymph but then get to water where it’s not ideal for euro nymphing? Or say it’s split 50/50 between ideal euro nymph water and traditional water. Do you carry a separate rod? Separate reel? I mean from the sounds of it, these euro rods aren’t going to be able to throw traditional rigs very well. Do you just do what turfdawg does and throw a bobber on your euro leader?
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Post by mirvc17 on May 31, 2018 18:27:35 GMT -6
You got it Dain...Fast water that's not too deep, pocket water, stained water with limited visibility...
Plan B - I just experienced this on the Cimarron two days ago. I didn't check the flows right before I left and they were low. Last time I Euro'd and cleaned up. On this trip, the flows were down and Euro was not the best option. Visibility was about 12", water shallow and the fish could see you easily. I went with a dry/dropper and caught fish on Stimis, BWO dry flies, a Slim Shady dropper, and also a pair of soft hackles.
I'd carry a separate rod rigged for Euro style if I think it's worth bringing. I did that on my last CO trip, but I just wasn't having success with it so I thew mostly dry flies and some traditional nymphs with another rod.
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Post by troutbum54 on May 31, 2018 18:27:53 GMT -6
I would say faster water, shallow or deep, is good, if it’s slower you could still continue on using the floating sighter trick with smaller nymphs or ones with maybe brass beads (no reasons to use heavy beads if there’s no problem getting flies down) which would be a super sensitive indicator. Alternatively you could just throw on a New Zealand indicator which wouldn’t have much air resistance and keep the sighter on to help you see where your line below the water is. This would be great to help you see where to mend and track your flies.
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Post by mirvc17 on May 31, 2018 20:26:18 GMT -6
Lighter flies are harder to lob...add some wind and it gets frustrating. I haven't floated a sighter yet or used a coiled sighter either, but I keep some payette paste and a couple coils in my chest pack for the day I want to give it a shot.
It doesn't take that long to re-rig a leader and I've done that several times when I didn't want to lug another rod. I have one of those rod holder thingys made by Vedavoo but it only works great when you're in open areas. It's a pain to set a rod on the bank and have to go fetch it when you want to move.
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Post by turfdawg on May 31, 2018 21:05:46 GMT -6
Dain, at the length I usually fish or have my wife fish you can pretty much keep mono out of the water or most out. Yes it really does help with the drag/drift.
Over in Hickory area along the edge I can grease the sighter and fish my 18 tungsten midge with wd-40/rs2 dropper
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Post by jonbo on Jun 19, 2018 6:13:05 GMT -6
I'm looking at Echo Shadow II's. They seem to get good reviews with medium slow action for a graphite rod. I want to cast a long mono leader 20 ft or more if I so desire, even if that's not often. That's why I'm frustrated with my 10' BVK. It doesn't even feel that leader, either casting or with subtle strikes, although it's a fine rod for all around fly fishing. For tight-lining/euro-nymphing it's just too heavy and fast. Anyway, with the Echo, the $250 price tag is just right for me. The Orvis Recon rod that Turfdawg mentioned at $400 plus, or $650 for the complete outfit, is more than I care to spend, though tempting. I'm thinking 3 wt, but can't decide between 10 ft and 11 ft. Any thoughts?
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Post by dainw on Jun 19, 2018 7:14:17 GMT -6
I'm looking at Echo Shadow II's. They seem to get good reviews with medium slow action for a graphite rod. I want to cast a long mono leader 20 ft or more if I so desire, even if that's not often. That's why I'm frustrated with my 10' BVK. It doesn't even feel that leader, either casting or with subtle strikes, although it's a fine rod for all around fly fishing. For tight-lining/euro-nymphing it's just too heavy and fast. Anyway, with the Echo, the $250 price tag is just right for me. The Orvis Recon rod that Turfdawg mentioned at $400 plus, or $650 for the complete outfit, is more than I care to spend, though tempting. I'm thinking 3 wt, but can't decide between 10 ft and 11 ft. Any thoughts? Looks like on the echo shadow II you can pay an extra $75 and get the extension kit so you can get the 10ft rod but convert to 11ft if extra reach is needed.
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Post by jonbo on Jun 19, 2018 10:52:56 GMT -6
Hmm, more to think about. Darn!
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Post by jonbo on Jun 19, 2018 10:56:36 GMT -6
What about tippet ring size? Sighter material? Tippet diameter? Tungsten bead size? Dropper off the bend or dropper loop? European fly patterns or American? Fedora or beret? Cigar or cigarillo?
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Post by jonbo on Jun 20, 2018 15:47:27 GMT -6
Turfdawg, Troutbum, Mirv, others who tight-line with "euro" rods, can I pick your brains? What do you guys use for line on your euro-sticks? I know Turfdawg, you said something about you're taking to just running straight mono. Do you only tight-line nymph with that kind of set-up? I'm looking to be able to, with the same rod, without having to return to the truck or anything, to switch to dry-dropper if I want to, or swinging a soft-hackle, something like that. So, I need the rod-reel-line set-up to be able to cast at least a little bit, like 25 feet or so. Will just straight mono do that? Will the Rio or Cortland nymphing lines cast a little bit? (Hey, I tried to italicize one word, now I can't turn italics off. Sorry!) If they will, that's probably what I'll get for the reel. Otherwise, because I want more versatility from the rod, I'll probably have to plan to buy a WF 3 wt line. Oh, yeah. I've tentatively settled on an Echo Shadow II with a "kit" that allows you to use it as a 10' or as an 11' foot rod. If I do get a WF line then I'll plan to run those 26' Maxima Chameleon-type leaders when I tight-line and swap to a regular tapered leader when I fish other styles. I've almost decided that's going to be my route. I just wanted to know what y'all think about it. Thanks!
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Post by turfdawg on Jun 20, 2018 16:34:42 GMT -6
Jon, I went Friday, Saturday and Sunday. The only leader I used was my Tactical Fly Fishers thinner leader. I know it’s 15lb Maxima and I think 24’ long. I actually have two spools for my reel. One has wf3wt and has never seen the water and the other has Airflo Euro line that my long leader is on that was pretty much a waste of money for me. If you use let’s say a 15’ leader then you probably want the Euro line but if not just put the long leader on wf line.
With that leader I was casting anywhere from a size 12-18 nymph with a smaller dropper. I also cast a small streamer for a bit and a small dry with dropper at the Bluffs. The 20lb leader will cast the dry dropper better but it’s still not comparable to fly line.
I’m not exactly sure how many feet I cast but my leader is 24’ with 6’-8’ of tippet on that 10’ rod and sometimes the leader doesn’t come all the way off the reel and sometimes I’ll have a foot of line off the reel.
Trust me when I tell you this. With that Echo Shadow in a 2 or 3wt and a good long leader, like the one I mentioned, with a nymph and 1/2” Air lock indicator you will be able to water load cast 25’ without a problem. And the best part is you can keep all the mono off the water.
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Post by mirvc17 on Jun 20, 2018 16:39:52 GMT -6
I actually don't own a Euro nymphing rod (yet--I may build one at some point). I use my normal line and the 24-ish foot leader so the line stays on the reel the whole time. I think the Rio/Cortland Comp lines can cast a little bit, probably better than straight mono.
Changing leaders on the water is probably easier than carrying a separate reel with a dedicated comp line. Depending on where you are, it might be easier than carrying a dedicated rod as well.
The only thing bad about those long 24-26' Maxima leaders is you have to be very careful winding/unwinding them or they get into a huge mess very quickly.
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Post by jonbo on Jun 20, 2018 17:09:48 GMT -6
Thanks, gents. I probably am going to with a WF line of some sort (whatever is on sale!) I'll probably also buy a Lamson Liquid reel. The rod is said to be a little "tip heavy". The LL's I don't think are too light, so they just might balance well. Plus, they're drag system is supposed to be top notch.
I'm pretty hopeful about the rod, especially with the kit (additional cost). Dain hipped me to it above. But if one can go back and forth between a 10 foot rod length and 11 feet, I think that might make for a fairly versatile set-up.
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Post by turfdawg on Jun 20, 2018 18:00:09 GMT -6
Jon also remember with the kit for that rod you also get weights for the butt to help with balance. I like my Lampson Guru but for the money the Cabelas RLS is a heck of a nice reel.
Old tippet spools work great for long leaders.
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Post by jonbo on Jun 20, 2018 20:43:26 GMT -6
Nice "pro-tip" Bill. Thanks!
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