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Post by stephenl on Dec 30, 2018 22:58:53 GMT -6
Are any of you like me?
Enjoy fly fishing because of the relaxing nature of it, the serinity of the river and mountains.The first glint of sunlight on the water, the fog rolling across the river. Fly fishing is a calm quiet sport. Or at least it's supposed to be.
Yelling across the water to someone. Hooting and hollering about the fish you just caught. Aggressively splashing through the water.
Spooks the fish, kills the serenity and otherwise ruins it for everyone else.
Please everyone have respect for your fellow fisherman and remember that it's a privilege to get to fish there.
Of course I'm sure everyone on this forum is a courteous fisherman.
Tight lines everyone.
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Post by huntnfish2much on Dec 31, 2018 9:05:53 GMT -6
Yes. There are some that are like you. I don’t know the percentage of which is which, but it doesn’t take a very large percentage to disrupt the solitude.
This is certainly one of the reasons I enjoy fishing Zone 2.
JR
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Post by stephenl on Dec 31, 2018 9:54:43 GMT -6
I don't know who it was but there was a guide and two of his clients that were making an awful lot of Racket in Hickory hole Thursday when I was there. Everybody else fishing was taking notice to that. As if fishing wasn't hard enough after that rain.
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Post by hankinsfly on Dec 31, 2018 10:53:57 GMT -6
I think some banter and talk between fish pals is allowable. Constant hooping and hollaring for catching fish is dumb.
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Post by todd13 on Dec 31, 2018 12:36:13 GMT -6
Yeah I agree, I enjoy the serene tranquility of fly fishing. That is number one for me. I don’t have to catch a bunch to “recharge my batteries”. I think I speak for most FF, quiet, tranquil outdoors is #1. Probably #2 is respecting others and the fishery. I admire FF because they release the fish, especially the big ones. Nothing chaps me more than seeing folks walk out with a stringer full of fish. Keep one or two if you want one, but always get the bigger ones recovered and released. Also, I try to grab some trash when I see it. Again, FF has me made more aware of my shared space / nature. Great post!
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Post by stephenl on Dec 31, 2018 13:11:58 GMT -6
Sir thanks for your agreement. I typically keep two or three fish. I like 13-15" fish. I properly release all others. I also pick up a lot of trash.
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Post by ranger1965 on Dec 31, 2018 14:30:00 GMT -6
Once heard a guy yell “peanut butter and jelly” every time he caught a fish. Very annoying!
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Post by turfdawg on Dec 31, 2018 14:35:52 GMT -6
I try to make people mad so maybe they will leave the area.
Peanut butter and jelly time
😜😂🤣
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Quiet time
Dec 31, 2018 15:05:02 GMT -6
via mobile
Post by huntnfish2much on Dec 31, 2018 15:05:02 GMT -6
I try to make people mad so maybe they will leave the area. Peanut butter and jelly time 😜😂🤣 You yell that around me, and I'll throw stones in the water!! 😎 JR
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Post by hankinsfly on Dec 31, 2018 15:18:21 GMT -6
You yell peanut butter and jelly around me, you’ll have the hole to yourself cuz I got hongry and went in for lunch.
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Post by dainw on Dec 31, 2018 15:35:44 GMT -6
I mean I enjoy the peace and quiet as well when I can get it, but I wouldn’t go to broken bow expecting to get peace and quiet, especially during the week between Christmas and New Years.
As far as the guides and the loud cheering go, that can be annoying definitely, especially if you aren’t really catching that many fish (been in that position a few times myself). I try to put myself in their shoes though and this is their paycheck. A lot of times they are guiding kids or people that have never fly fished before and if people have a good time you get a better tip. I’d be hootin and hollerin too.
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Post by breeden3 on Dec 31, 2018 15:55:48 GMT -6
I completely disagree with your post about what fly fishing is supposed to be. Perhaps in your mind, that is how you view it, but plenty of others enjoy it for the camaraderie and excitement of catching fish. I personally enjoy hearing people have fun, even if they aren't my clients.
As far as fly fishing being a calm sport, I guess you have never fished for salt water fish or steelhead. They go ballistic and disrupt all peace and serenity.
I guess perhaps you have forgotten the jubilation of catching your first fish, or the excitement of catching fish after struggling all day to get it right. You have no idea what people are going through and maybe them catching fish is a huge release from their every day struggle. Fly Fishing is whatever you want it to be, it isn't "supposed to be" anything. Perhaps you just haven't caught anything to be excited about. I don't know.
What I do know is that when I want peace and serenity on the water, I seek it out. I don't go to the most popular stretches of water on the river and then complain on a public forum when it gets loud.
FYI I wasn't the guide that he was talking about in his complaints post, but I DO get excited for my clients when they make great drifts, casts, or catch fish. Catching fish is exciting!
Tight Lines, Peter
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Post by huntnfish2much on Dec 31, 2018 19:28:23 GMT -6
I don't know who it was but there was a guide and two of his clients that were making an awful lot of Racket in Hickory hole Thursday when I was there. Everybody else fishing was taking notice to that. As if fishing wasn't hard enough after that rain. I completely agree that you have every right to view fly fishing however you choose to view it. There IS a reverence in catching a fish on a fly. Different people react differently to the same situation. I have fly fished in New Zealand, Alaska, Montana....... I get the same reverent feeling when I caught my first 27 inch brown trout in New Zealand as I do when I catch beautifully colored rainbows at the LMF. Neither I nor my guide jumped up and down or whooped or hollered. We clapped one another on the back, said many congratulations and thank-yous, took several photos, and released the fish. For anyone to say that you’re wrong about the way you view your time on the water..... well, that’s just plain wrong. To find your peace and solitude, you may have to move your fishing spot. You may even have to change your target species. Men fish all their lives not realizing it’s not the fish they’re after. Don’t let anyone tell you that you’re wrong about how you feel when you’re experiencing the nature that the Good Lord put here for you. JR
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Quiet time
Dec 31, 2018 21:14:41 GMT -6
via mobile
Post by stephenl on Dec 31, 2018 21:14:41 GMT -6
I caught my first fish when I was 5. I was taught a fishing etiquette that not everyone has. In Texas its assumed that the guy fishing next to you is polite. And your polite to him even if he isn't.
I didn't want to really fuss at anyone in this post. I was just expressing a view.
I know that someone that comes to fish with or without a guide, my be fishing for the first time in their life. And they may not know that fish get spooked by loud comotion. Or that it's rude to disturb other fishermen.
I always like to be courteous to other fishermen and expect the same.
I think you guys on here are great by the way. And it's always good to meet y'all.
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Post by breeden3 on Dec 31, 2018 21:51:18 GMT -6
I never said he was wrong about how he spends his time on the water. I said I disagree with his notion of how fly fishing is supposed to be. Those are two completely separate issues.
Also, I am always very courteous on the river to other anglers; however, being excited when catching fish is not a lack of courtesy or etiquette. I think most people would agree that they get excited catching fish. Some people express it very differently.
As for your reverent feeling, you can catch a large fish, or your first fish, get excited, and look back on the fish with reverence. Reverence and excitement aren't mutually exclusive.
If you are claiming that you have never exclaimed in excitement at the sight of a large fish, or shouted encouragement to a friend as he fought a large fish, I don't know what to tell you. But your experiences do not speak for everyone else.
To conclude, claiming that someone has poor etiquette and isn't courteous because they show excitement and enthusiasm when fishing is wrong. Saying they are wrong because they don't fit your perfect mold of how fly fishing is supposed to be is equally wrong.
Side note: Fish on the LMF do not spook at the sight of people, or commotion. If anything they come running to people when they enter the water (San Juan Shuffle). If someone wades above you, you should thank them.
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Post by golferjeff on Jan 1, 2019 10:39:48 GMT -6
Agree with Peter on LMF fish - they don't spook unless you step on them. Noise, kayaks, wading, dogs - nothing puts them down. Now, In COlorado, that is completely different.
On the water - to each his own. As long as it is legal. Laugh, cry, shout, brood, sulk, say a few choice words..... whatever makes the experience good for you. Courtesy is admired, but mostly ignored on pressured fisheries like the LMF. Do what feels right to YOU. We need a good balance of quiet types, courteous types, excitement, and professional manners on the water.
BTW - I found that fishing in New Mexico in 9 degree weather with 6" of snow on the trails leads to quite a bit of solitude. But I was still excited to catch a 9" wild Brown along with a dozen stocker rainbows. Fun as hell and fished with good people to boot.
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Post by Nobytes on Jan 2, 2019 10:06:32 GMT -6
My father used to tell me, that my "rights" ended at the tip of my nose, and after that, everything else was a compromise requiring respect for others rights. So I think this is a bit more nuanced a situation than I'm seeing here.
I fully understand Stephan's frustration. I too am a fly fisherman who seeks solitude and the beauty of nature, and no, I don't think fishing warrants the kind of behavior more appropriate at a football game. But, I also understand Breeden's point of view as well - folks should be able to enjoy their experience in their own way.
So I would propose that the etiquette here should be very much like that you'd see on a Golf Course, where players certainly do celebrate, backslap, and etc, but where they expected to do so without disturbing the "game" of other players on the course. In other words, you have the right to enjoy, but not the right to project your enjoyment so loudly that you force others to be included in it. Have a good time, but keep it within your own space - because outside that space, you are infringing on the rights of others to enjoy their experience the same way you are.
With respect to Guides, I would suggest that most folks hiring them do so because the want to learn to fly fish, and want to catch fish. Who better than a Guide to teach appropriate behavior and respect for fellow fishermen? If Guides simply stay silent, allow bad behavior or excessive noise, then they risk becoming a nuisance on the river, and seen as part of a problem. Probably not too good for business.
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Post by hankinsfly on Jan 2, 2019 11:19:04 GMT -6
Golf: another four-letter word.
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Post by dainw on Jan 2, 2019 11:21:09 GMT -6
My father used to tell me, that my "rights" ended at the tip of my nose, and after that, everything else was a compromise requiring respect for others rights. So I think this is a bit more nuanced a situation than I'm seeing here. I fully understand Stephan's frustration. I too am a fly fisherman who seeks solitude and the beauty of nature, and no, I don't think fishing warrants the kind of behavior more appropriate at a football game. But, I also understand Breeden's point of view as well - folks should be able to enjoy their experience in their own way. So I would propose that the etiquette here should be very much like that you'd see on a Golf Course, where players certainly do celebrate, backslap, and etc, but where they expected to do so without disturbing the "game" of other players on the course. In other words, you have the right to enjoy, but not the right to project your enjoyment so loudly that you force others to be included in it. Have a good time, but keep it within your own space - because outside that space, you are infringing on the rights of others to enjoy their experience the same way you are. With respect to Guides, I would suggest that most folks hiring them do so because the want to learn to fly fish, and want to catch fish. Who better than a Guide to teach appropriate behavior and respect for fellow fishermen? If Guides simply stay silent, allow bad behavior or excessive noise, then they risk becoming a nuisance on the river, and seen as part of a problem. Probably not too good for business. Nobytes I think you hit on this. The problem with “etiquette” is that it’s subjective. What might be considered good etiquette to one angler could be considered rude by another angler. Etiquette is also subjective to the body of water that you’re fishing or even the conditions on that river. For example, in SW Colorado, if you even try to fish the same access as someone that’s already there, you run the risk of getting your tires slashed. Obviously that’s not the case in broken bow. In broken bow, the question is more about how much room should I give the angler adjacent to me? That’s where etiquette is up for interpretation. What seems like plenty of room to me might not be enough room to you or vice versa. You also have to keep in mind what part of the river you’re on, what technique or style of fishing those around you are doing (if the guy above me is swinging wets I want to give him more room on his downstream side than if he’s fishing nymphs upstream so we aren’t crossing lines), and even how crowded the river is that particular day. All that being said, I used to get really frustrated with other people and even took a year off fishing in broken bow because of how many people that fish there and how many people there are that are rude. I finally had to learn to accept some things about fishing broken bow, like that I’m never gonna have the river to myself and if I want absolute solitude, it might be better to go somewhere else, although there are some spots in broken bow that you can get to and have a bit more privacy. Just keep in mind these aren’t easily accessed by the stocking truck so fishing might not be as easy. As far as the guides go, I’ve been on several trips with Peter and have fished near groups that Cody, Doron, and Ryan have taken out and I’ve never seen them be anything but extremely courteous and great stewards of the river, as well as great representatives of the fly shop. Eddie and Roberta don’t usually hire jack asses to guide their clients. I do see them get excited and congratulate their clients when they catch a fish, especially when it’s a kid or a new fly fisherman. Possible this was an independent guide or the “commotion” being cause wasn’t as bad as we are being told. For the record, trout don’t hear above the water very well, so unless they were splashing around, a little hootin and hollerin probably didn’t do much to hurt the fishing.
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Post by huntnfish2much on Jan 2, 2019 13:48:39 GMT -6
Since the topic is still being tossed around, and the game of football has been mentioned, I have a pretty good analogy.
First, I want to say that I certainly believe that Coach strikes me as a great guy, and I'm sure he is very careful about the guides that represent his business.
I had exactly the same experience as OP with a guide whose name will go unmentioned, but most on this forum know exactly who I'm referring to. It was pre-flood, and I was fishing evening hole at the tail-out of a riffle, doing OK.
The guide approached, stationed one of his clients hardly ten feet upstream from me, and never even acted like I was anywhere in the county.
I will tell you that if I ever approach anyone that is already stationed and fishing a stretch of water, I will ASK you if it will bother you to fish nearby. I will also ask if you're moving upstream or downstream, or if you're just planning to stay put.
The guide had three guests, and one of them caught a nine inch fish. You would have thought it was a state record! After exclaiming for several minutes about what a monster it was, the client said, "For crying out loud, it was tiny!"
Original Poster said that other people in the area were also disturbed by the guide's rantings. Skip back to the football analogy. Such rantings and carrying-on is equivalent to end-zone celebrations. While it is OK, to an extent, too much celebrating brings a penalty.
I don't carry a yellow flag in my fishing vest.
I think that if a guide does his/her job well enough, the guest will feel compelled to tip, no matter how many or what size fish are caught.
Banter between fishing partners can be kept to the point where it's not disturbing the other people on the water. Many here talk of picking up trash from streambanks. It bothers most everyone to see trash at our beautiful LMF.
What is disturbing to one is obviously NOT to someone else. Courtesy is in the eye, or ear, of the beholder.
Don't trash the stream with your obnoxious behavior OR your litter. Respect others. FIFTEEN YARDS for unsportsmanlike conduct!!!
JR
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Post by breeden3 on Jan 2, 2019 13:58:20 GMT -6
Thank you Dain, I appreciate the sentiment.
Nobytes, I understand what you are saying but on heavily pressured fisheries like the LMF, at what point is being loud considered bad etiquette or courtesy? On the LMF, people are often jam packed, which means that I can hear another person's normal conversation. I am not a part of their group, but I am being included in their experience. Same thing goes for me. If I am in a hole and a group of guys walks in right above me, does that mean I have bad etiquette or courtesy when I get excited about my clients catching fish or making great presentations and those people hear me? I can hear people talking in normal conversation almost the ENTIRE length of the Evening Hole.
That day in Hickory Hole, there was another guide service (no names going to be mentioned) who had a big group out and their people were yelling back and forth, guys were falling in the river, and just making a loud commotion in general. I did not think of those people as having poor etiquette or courtesy. They were having fun and we were CLOSE to each other. Once I was down a ways, I couldn't even hear them anymore. I promise you on a river out west where people can spread out, it would not seem near as loud. I don't hear people, and people don't hear me. Everyone has to remember that we are on a river that is always PACKED with people, so etiquette and courtesy is a lot different on these types of fisheries.
I consider poor etiquette on rivers to be high or low holing somebody, walking up and fishing the same hole as someone already there, yelling down stream asking what another person is using, walking up and asking what someone is using, or yelling at the top of your lungs constantly.
Tight Lines, Peter
EDIT: I also consider fishing to spawning fish/fishing redds to be the most egregious of fishing etiquette violations but you wouldn't believe how many people do it. I guess that grip and grin and wanting to prove to everyone how good you are can get the best of people.
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Post by breeden3 on Jan 2, 2019 14:11:54 GMT -6
I think one thing is getting lost in translation here. I am by no means advocating that jumping up and down screaming in excitement when a fish is landed is acceptable, but someone letting out a loud "yes" or "alright!" is certainly acceptable in my book. And with how close everyone is on this river, moderate back slapping, hand shaking, and reminiscing when a fish is landed is going to be heard by other people, it is as simple as that. Also, someone who is moving through the water to better position themselves when fighting a fish is going to make a commotion but there is nothing wrong with that.
I will say that out of every trip I have guided, both here and in Colorado, every angler I have ever had, both beginner and experienced, gets excited and is louder after they catch a fish or miss a fish than when they are making casts and presentations. It is a natural reaction to the hard work paying off, or being frustrated with the miss. The only time people don't get excited is when they have no interest in fishing or being out there at all. I wouldn't be surprised if the people on here claiming that being loud is poor etiquette are louder than they think. Especially when fishing with friends or a guide.
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Post by dainw on Jan 2, 2019 17:32:59 GMT -6
Since the topic is still being tossed around, and the game of football has been mentioned, I have a pretty good analogy. First, I want to say that I certainly believe that Coach strikes me as a great guy, and I'm sure he is very careful about the guides that represent his business. I had exactly the same experience as OP with a guide whose name will go unmentioned, but most on this forum know exactly who I'm referring to. It was pre-flood, and I was fishing evening hole at the tail-out of a riffle, doing OK. The guide approached, stationed one of his clients hardly ten feet upstream from me, and never even acted like I was anywhere in the county. I will tell you that if I ever approach anyone that is already stationed and fishing a stretch of water, I will ASK you if it will bother you to fish nearby. I will also ask if you're moving upstream or downstream, or if you're just planning to stay put. The guide had three guests, and one of them caught a nine inch fish. You would have thought it was a state record! After exclaiming for several minutes about what a monster it was, the client said, "For crying out loud, it was tiny!" Original Poster said that other people in the area were also disturbed by the guide's rantings. Skip back to the football analogy. Such rantings and carrying-on is equivalent to end-zone celebrations. While it is OK, to an extent, too much celebrating brings a penalty. I don't carry a yellow flag in my fishing vest. I think that if a guide does his/her job well enough, the guest will feel compelled to tip, no matter how many or what size fish are caught. Banter between fishing partners can be kept to the point where it's not disturbing the other people on the water. Many here talk of picking up trash from streambanks. It bothers most everyone to see trash at our beautiful LMF. What is disturbing to one is obviously NOT to someone else. Courtesy is in the eye, or ear, of the beholder. Don't trash the stream with your obnoxious behavior OR your litter. Respect others. FIFTEEN YARDS for unsportsmanlike conduct!!! JR I don’t know what guide you’re referring to, maybe I missed something (PM me the name of the guide if you don’t mind, I’m just curious). In either case did you say something to that guide? Sliding in that close without so much as a how do you do is just plain rude and you’re well within your rights to let the guy know. I generally try not to confront people on the river and just move down to another spot more often than not. As far as guides go, they aren’t all created equal and there are some truly bad guides on this river too. I’m assuming it wasn’t one of the shop’s guides but if it was you could always let Eddie or Roberta know. As far as the discussion goes to this point, I’m going to have fun on the river. If I’m with some buddies that might mean some sh#% talking and goofing around, if I’m by myself it could be serious and quiet. I really don’t care what kind of judgement or looks I get. If someone I’m fishing near is doing something I don’t like, I just find a new place to fish. Lots of good holes on the river. I think in general we tend to take ourselves way too seriously, especially at broken bow. If you get a sense of reverance from fly fishing I mean that’s cool and all but let’s not kid ourselves here. Broken bow is cool but the River Test it’s certainly not. We aren’t fishing Harriman state park on the Henry’s Fork. 90% of the time we are catching fish that fell off a truck 3 days ago and would probably eat a cigarette butt floating down the river. Plus we’re fishing with bait chunkers and little kids swimming in at the bluffs. Don’t get me wrong, the scenery is beautiful and there are some great fish in the LMF but some of us would do well to relax a little and have some fun. That’s whats its all about anyway, being outside and having fun.
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Post by hankinsfly on Jan 2, 2019 18:08:23 GMT -6
This has been a really good discussion. That is all.
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Post by turfdawg on Jan 2, 2019 18:22:50 GMT -6
This has been a really good discussion. That is all. So, can I or can I not yell "Peanut butter and Jelly Time" while I do a happy dance in the spot close to where someone is fishing?
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