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Post by golferjeff on Jul 11, 2017 6:42:42 GMT -6
The foundation released the latest news (none all that good) on the river and the regulations. Some of it truly baffles me. Here is an excerpt:
According to the newest rules from the USACE: There is no entry into the water for the first 300 feet below any dam structure. You will also notice the buoy line that has been added across the stream going from the Generation sluice up to the Swim Beach bridge. There is NO entry into the water below this per the USACE. You will be given a ticket. •We do realize that after the CORP destroyed the trout stream through mismanagement, they have also taken away 4 of the most productive fishing areas that were left. My hat is off to them, they can still stun me with their decisions after all these years.
So what exactly does this mean? NO fishing below the stop logs? No fishing below spillway, old park, or re-reg? Pretty soon they will have 300 people clogged and stuffed into the bluffs and upper EH.
Go here to read the entire release and just shake your head at the idiots running the show: lmfrfoundation.org/latest-news-and-updates/.
Discuss........
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Post by booglerz on Jul 11, 2017 7:18:26 GMT -6
Below stop logs (below swim-beach bridge) is (one of) my favorite spots... Easy access and good pocket water. I hope this is not true...
EDIT: My current understanding (after contacting a few people) is that from swim-bridge to the bouy line is still fishable, you will get fined if you go into the water below the bouy line.
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Post by golferjeff on Jul 11, 2017 14:20:24 GMT -6
So what is considered a 'Dam structure'? Maybe a permanent impediment to water flow?
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Post by mirvc17 on Jul 11, 2017 14:50:28 GMT -6
A lot of really disappointing news in that LMFRF post Jeff. It sounds like typical government responses to all of these problems. Is the USACE even paying for anything to restore the stream that it helped destroy? I'm assuming not. I'm sure 'there's no budget for it' and all of that.
This fishery really saddens me. Some of the type of people that visit there, destroy signs, violate/ignore the rules and no one is doing anything about it is just disgusting...
I know there are a lot of good people that are fighting this battle and I hope some more good comes out of it.
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Post by mirvc17 on Jul 11, 2017 19:19:03 GMT -6
Thinking more on the LMFRF's post... Why must be 'told' that we should be "patient" with the lack of rule enforcement? I would like to know from anyone here (Jeff, Peter, Aaron, etc) that has been going to the LMFR for a number of years and really knows the place if things are as bad as they seem WRT these kinds of issues? Has it always been this bad? Did the flood start this craze?
I was looking at the fishing regs again...why can't there be any blurbs in there about swimming or rafting in the particular zones? Seems simple enough. I guess this is what you get with a short fishable section and people that just want to swim in rivers (no thanks).
"And with that, due to a difference in penalties imposed upon offenders, the Park Rangers have been instructed to NOT write tickets for violations of the “Fish” parts of the Fish and Game Laws. Yes, I know it makes less than no sense. Don’t waste your time calling in violators to the Park."
I have a real problem with this--this tells me the Park doesn't care about the rules. The lack of enforcement as it is proves it, too. The occasional bust posted on the news isn't enough for me. I would think the LMFRF would encourage people to call in and COMPLAIN about the lack of enforcement. Come on!
Sorry, I just felt like ranting.
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Post by okieman71 on Jul 11, 2017 20:02:53 GMT -6
JP, Violations have been getting worse for the last few years. I try to make it down several times a month as I only live 60 miles away. Summers, of course, are much worse with the added crowds of people. Zone II doesn't get discussed much but I would like to point out a few things. I fished Zone II before the flood and after the floods. Many blame the lack of fish in ZII on water temps. which definitely are a factor. Immediately after the first flood, we were catching a lot of really good fish in ZII. This was true even in August. I believe the problem in ZII goes way beyond Temps. Its called poaching. I have not only heard many people speak of folks leaving ZII with stringers of large fish, I have also seen it myself. I would imagine those stringers came off of people using power bait. I think Zone II got hammered the last two summers and there is no one there to enforce anything. Those big signs apparently mean nothing to many. Now ZII is slow. Some fish are being caught as it has been stocked some in the last 6 months I believe. As far as the not writing tickets, that is just plain ol apathy or laziness, take your pick. The truth is, the river has tons of potential. However, to develop that potential, it takes WORK. Its much easier for the powers that be to sit back and let it be a put and take fishery. Thats what they want because its EASY. To enforce regs you have to actually get out of your vehicle and get up and down the banks etc. What these geniuses fail to realize is that the Fisherman spend money at BB 12 months out of the year. In fact I spoke to a lady that has cabins and she actually asks her renters what brings them to Hochatown. She said between 40-50% of her customers are there to Fish. You would think the folks in charge would want to ensure the future by targeting that majority of visitors. It does require a vision and some dollars to get things accomplished. What is sad is that the LMFRF has been shot down on several projects that were going to be completed with dollars from the foundation, not the state. If you frequent the place like I do, you almost get the impression that folks in charge really don't want a quality trout stream because then they would be required to help enforce regs and help manage the stream. They really would rather see it decline and we fly fisherman go somewhere else. That is truly what I think. See we fisherman are the ones that call in when we see violations. That creates work for park personnel. Now the Game Wardens will definitely ticket folks but many times they are an hour away. You know the LMFRF actually bought radios for the rangers to help enforce the regulations. What a waste of money. Its gonna take the right person in charge that would really like to see a quality trout water. Until then, a lot of the river will just be mediocre. Colder water is the key and its there for the taking. That lake is 187 ft. deep and the water at 100 ft. is in the low to mid 40's. It would not take too terribly much to extend those pipes to access that water. With SC in its current shape, there was never a better reason to do it. That should be priority number 1. That would solve a major issue if that water was rolling out at about 45 degrees. Sorry for ranting and talking in circles but I just care about the LMF and want to see it reach its potential.
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Post by mirvc17 on Jul 11, 2017 21:18:26 GMT -6
Okieman,
Thanks for the long reply--just what I was looking for. You see, I haven't been to the LMFR but maybe 4-5 times. Sad I know, but I live on the other side of the state and it's hard to drive that far. Even in those few trips I have seen sketchy activity and/or outright rule violations. That should not be happening for a person that's only been there a handful of times. I haven't seen anything like that on the Cimarron.
Yes, too bad those in charge don't realize fly anglers visit year-round and some (i.e., myself) would come more often if some things were different. Another contributing factor is the disgusting cesspool known as Hickory Campground. The facilities are gross. I'd rather crap in the woods. That's why I drive west a bit further because I get a better overall experience. No rednecks, no floating crafts, no swimmers, no crowding...
Really sad...
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Post by Fenwick on Jul 12, 2017 19:46:14 GMT -6
I live in Dallas and these "Visit McCurtain County" commercials air on the local Dallas stations in the morning: vimeo.com/107177023www.youtube.com/watch?v=bCVKMfeI-4kwww.youtube.com/watch?v=KejD9HYZM0wYears ago about all I could find online about Beavers Bend and the surrounding area other than the two fly shop websites was this: www.beaversbend.com/Now there's this: visitmccurtaincounty.com/The pros came in. Big difference between the former and the latter. Along with that are many sharp looking well done websites promoting log home rentals, places to eat and drink, outdoor activities and so forth. Social media chatter promoting the park abounds. The park closures due to the floods strangled area businesses of all kinds for months. Time to rebound and here's where I digress... All the assorted bureaus large and small are darn sure to be promoting the park every which way possible to keep it at maximum capacity to make up the $$$ and to keep it coming despite you uppity trouty people and your whining and complaining. Why can't you be real men and catch bass and catfish? After all, that's what was there before the dam and before you trout heads came along. We're trying to make a buck here and let our families have a good time in the woods. Why don't you just settle down and just fish, no need to be minding what other folks are doing. They seem to be enjoying themselves and that's the way we like it. We're glad you like McCurtain County and really don't mind you filling buckets with trout. Don't you fret none about some game warden coming along to ruin your fishing party cause we got plenty more trout coming all year round. Y'all come back now, ya hear? Marketing. That's just the way it is. It's all about marketing. Our little piece of heaven is a product in an agencies clients gallery.
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Post by mirvc17 on Jul 12, 2017 19:56:01 GMT -6
Fenwick,
Sadly, I think you are spot on...
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Post by greenman on Jul 12, 2017 20:10:56 GMT -6
Yeah, with the upscale cabins marketing to the OkC and DFW crowds, the cost has jumped on anyplace to stay. Wife is pushing for us to get a camper. BB used to be a reasonably priced getaway.
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Post by jonbo on Jul 12, 2017 20:26:20 GMT -6
Can we end this thread now? I'm getting more bummed out with every post. The thing that Okieman said about the radios ticked me off. I was there when the Foundation voted to purchase them, also a lot of discussion about improving radio-wise coordination between the enforcement agencies. Now the same agencies say they can't be bothered to enforce much of anything if it's going to be a hassle. We can look forward to a free-for-all. So much for a trophy trout stream. As Grant is alluding, many local businesses are going to be concerned mainly with the volume of vacationers. Even though we snooty fly-fishers will come year round, we're still a distinct minority even among the fishermen, and don't amount to much in the grand $$cheme$ of it all. So I guess put-and-take it is!
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Post by okieman71 on Jul 12, 2017 20:28:01 GMT -6
Everything has a saturation point. Beavers Bend is trendy among the DFW folks. It may stay that way a while. I remember going down there when there was literally NOTHING in Hochatown. One thing the geniuses need to consider is: What separates Beavers Bend from other destinations in the region?? TROUT FISHING!!! Lots of other lakes in Oklahoma( Texoma, Euafaula, Tenkiller, Grand, etc. The Trout fishing makes BB very unique. Instead of trying to protect and enhance that, they would just rather see it become your run of the mill tourist destination. I'll say this; If the trout fishing goes away or ceases to be worth the time. The months of Sept.-May borrowing holidays could get pretty lean for business owners.
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Post by Fenwick on Jul 12, 2017 21:02:22 GMT -6
The nail in the coffin will be when a great big sign out in front of Eddie's shop reads Live Bait / Cigarettes / Cold Beer.
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Post by golferjeff on Jul 13, 2017 7:01:46 GMT -6
Fenwick - Don't forget to add "Dispensary and Lunch" to the sign.
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Post by captwoody on Jul 13, 2017 10:41:51 GMT -6
I disagree with the advice to not bother phoning in violations. We need to remain vocal. Just don't have unrealistic expectations for a response and upset yourself.
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Post by hankinsfly on Jul 13, 2017 18:02:53 GMT -6
ozarkflyfisherjournal.wordpress.com/2017/07/13/bull-shoals-and-norfork-management-plan-reviews/ozarkflyfisherjournal.wordpress.com/2017/07/12/dallys-fly-fishing-report-71217/Check out these links. This is how Oklahoma really needs to take a hint from its neighbor to the east. Things like minimum flow have been initiated to ensure the water quality is suitable for trout throughout the summer. LMF could have the potential to every bit as good as the Norfork, in my opinion, with some modifications made to water releases and- dunh dunh dunh- management of regulations. I fished the LMF often several years ago before the floods. Can you imagine how all of Spillway Creek would be with just a couple more inches of water? LMF has some diverse bug life, I'd say moreso than Arkansas waters. It has potential. Don't know what it will take influence our legislature, but it's all about perspective.
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Post by okieman71 on Jul 13, 2017 19:56:45 GMT -6
You are absolutely correct. One other major key for the LMF is accessing that deeper. water to get those temps down. Like the Chatahoochee in Georgia. Water comes from 125' and is cold YEAR ROUND. We have the same option right here on the LMF. In fact there has been a plan submitted and it won't cost the State of Oklahoma a dime but for whatever reason it hasn't happened yet. Its like the state and corp are not willing to accept FREE Help. Nuts
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Post by todd13 on Jul 30, 2017 17:03:23 GMT -6
New to fishing and fly fishing, but after visiting CO last week, I will not be going to LMF during Thanksgiving week as I planned. If the park does not care, why wouldn't I drive up to CO with the extra days off? I have never seen a park ranger get out of the truck or walk the shore and just check on things. I love LMFR and this community, but I don't see the commitment to managing trout as a resource or the fly fishing community. Fenwick said it best - it's all about volume and dollars. I am seeing/hearing they don't want to bother with quality or the FF community.
-bummed
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Post by okieman71 on Jul 30, 2017 18:50:55 GMT -6
Im gonna start spending my extra time on the White. Only 5 hrs. away from me and well worth it.
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Post by Fenwick on Jul 30, 2017 21:43:23 GMT -6
Let me take you to another dimension of time and space, a dimension where there were no floods of 2015, where all the hard won river improvements made over the years for a better trout environment remain intact and the LMF is still a destination fly fishing tailwater with revered locations such as the pools of the Spillway, Lost Creek, the Cold Hole run, the right turn at the Bluffs, the Bluffs, the S turn, the Lost Creek junction pool, the upper, mid and lower Evening Hole...where every so often an authority figure in a uniform would indeed check licenses and barbs and such in the Red Zone because it was worth it to enforce the rules simply for the sake of the river being a popular trout fishing environment. We had our fly fishing golden era in those pre-flood days. Now we return to the reality of the present post flood environment where we find things as they are. The Corps' power washing improvements to the river, the bridges and to Eddie's shop in May and again in December of 2015 created the "Oh well, she ain't what she used to be so the heck with it" attitude and...and...and I'm preaching to the choir again. Sorry.
Anyway, the old river was well worth having game laws enforced and there was a modicum of safety and discipline towards assorted activities but I can understand the "never mind, let 'em do whatever they want" train of thought nowadays. We guys still do our part out of a sense of duty. Chins up fellas! We'll all stand out from the crowd.
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Post by breeden3 on Jul 31, 2017 20:41:59 GMT -6
New to fishing and fly fishing, but after visiting CO last week, I will not be going to LMF during Thanksgiving week as I planned. If the park does not care, why wouldn't I drive up to CO with the extra days off? I have never seen a park ranger get out of the truck or walk the shore and just check on things. I love LMFR and this community, but I don't see the commitment to managing trout as a resource or the fly fishing community. Fenwick said it best - it's all about volume and dollars. I am seeing/hearing they don't want to bother with quality or the FF community. -bummed Todd, I live in CO for a good portion of the year and I would MUCH rather be on the LMF in November than CO. In fact, it isn't even a close comparison in my opinion.
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Post by breeden3 on Jul 31, 2017 20:45:27 GMT -6
Everyone forgets this is almost always how the summer is. Fall, Winter, and Spring are EPIC times to be on the LMF. It is easy to complain but it is summer in OK. What else do you expect?
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Smallfry
Riffle Club
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Posts: 435
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Post by Smallfry on Jul 31, 2017 21:41:31 GMT -6
Everyone forgets this is almost always how the summer is. Fall, Winter, and Spring are EPIC times to be on the LMF. It is easy to complain but it is summer in OK. What else do you expect? After the day I had yesterday I would rather be here all the time!!! Although I must admit witnessing the fish carnage is a quite a bit of a let down, doubled when it is involved fly fishers and a heavy basket of nice looking trout. BTW, I spotted a cute little otter family just at the end of the rock pile at about 6 pm before I took off. Two pups (are they called pups???) and an adult lurking around the river left bank.
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Post by bradbessett on Aug 1, 2017 8:36:00 GMT -6
It's easy to get down in the dumps and dwell on the old glory days of the river. Guilty as charged. I like seeing people on here fired up because it shows how much we all care. But to a lot of us, it's all we have so we do what we can. Like Peter said, summers are rough on the LMF. It's easy to complain now. But... once the crowds thin out, it always rebounds and is excellent fishing in the winter.
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Post by golferjeff on Aug 1, 2017 13:56:26 GMT -6
November thru early March...... can't wait. No stop logs, no crowds, no swimmers.
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