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Post by dainw on May 29, 2018 6:04:27 GMT -6
So I’m considering throwing away the bobbers and split shot in favor of focusing on a euro/tightline technique, but I have no idea where to start and have some questions. Seems like everything in fly fishing, there are a million ways to skin a cat, various techniques etc. So here goes. Any help you guys have greatly appreciated.
1. What books or videos do you recommend picking up? I have “Dynamic Nymphing” and there are some good things in there but can be a lot to digest. Have also heard the video “Modern Nymphing” mentioned in this forum. Thinking about picking that up. Anything else you guys recommend?
2. Is it necessary to tie your own flies? It seems like it’s hard to find commercially available flies that are heavy enough to fish this method effectively.
3. Do the traditional “euro” flies work at places like the LMF? Seems like from what I’ve seen a lot of the traditional bobeshes and things like that are meant to imitate scuds or cases caddis. Will these work?
4. Can I still fish traditional patterns that I know are generally effective, such as midges, eggs, rubber legs, etc?
5. For those of you willing to share, what are your go to patterns for fishing this technique at the LMF?
6. Are you tying your own leader or buying the commercially available competition leaders?
7. Will this technique work in all water conditions or are there water types where I’ll still want to keep my bobber and shot handy?
Thanks
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Post by golferjeff on May 29, 2018 7:08:25 GMT -6
Pick up Nymph Masters by JAson Randall. It discusses the pros and cons of pretty much every nymphing technique. Great illustrations and pictures too. Lots of focus on underwater drag and some really good diagrams. Anything 'Tactical' from Orvis, Fly Shop, or Feather Craft is essentially a euro nymph. I have bought some, but still haven't figured out how to use them properly. If your eggs, midges and worms are super heavy tungsten beadheads they can work. Rubber legs are a bit buoyant for the euro purpose, but can still be effective. Go non-euro and use split shot in that case. Frank Vanek gave me two leaders - I am not sure I have the patience to tie a 20 foot leader. I am not good at nail knots or blood knots either. Most tight liners swear by building your own. The book mentioned above has a really good section on building leaders. Anytime you have to fish more than about 25 feet away from you, you will need either a different technique or an indicator. Euro is more effective in pocket water (Conejos, Rio Grande). The tuck and lob casts will only go so far..... I might be willing to share the book  I got 6 new books for my birthday. Give me a shout sometime. |
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Post by turfdawg on May 29, 2018 7:08:57 GMT -6
I have been doing it for a couple months now. I’m loving it and post some of my thoughts later. I’m not that good but it has helped me catch more fish at times and you can buy everything on line.
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Post by FlyAndStream on May 29, 2018 12:57:10 GMT -6
Euro-nymphing is a great system and method to consistently catch more fish, and do it more efficiently. There can be a modest learning curve, though. Once, you've put in the time to learn it, there are noticeable benefits and rewards. It's much more of a mental challenge of problem solving, than simply watching an indicator and waiting for the 'set', IMO. 1. What books or videos do you recommend picking up? I have “Dynamic Nymphing” and there are some good things in there but can be a lot to digest. Have also heard the video “Modern Nymphing” mentioned in this forum. Thinking about picking that up. Anything else you guys recommend? I would highly recommend both of these videos (in this order). I just gave away a few of these on my IG account, maybe I'll see if I can get a few more promo codes from Devin and send you one. - Modern Nymphing - European Inspired Techniques
- Modern Nymphing Elevated - Beyond the Basics
2. Is it necessary to tie your own flies? It seems like it’s hard to find commercially available flies that are heavy enough to fish this method effectively. My answer to this would be relative to your budget. If you're fine spending upwards of $2 per fly/nymph, then yes there are many places online which sell tungsten weighted "euro-style" nymphing flies. Otherwise, I've personally found that it's much more effective to tie my own, most patterns are pretty quick and simple. I'll then only purchase certain patterns that I personally find too time consuming to tie myself. Sticking to a few confidence patterns that are easy to tie can certainly help with cost and momentum as you get started. 3. Do the traditional “euro” flies work at places like the LMF? Seems like from what I’ve seen a lot of the traditional bobeshes and things like that are meant to imitate scuds or cases caddis. Will these work? Yes! Unless, I'm lazily enjoying the day by casting it away while swinging flies, confidence "euro" flies will often produce noticeable results on the stretch of LMF river I'm fishing. Even if there are no apparent similar food sources present in the river. Recently, I waited and then jumped into a spot behind someone – after he fished the run for over 45 minutes without a single fish. As he moved down a short distance he said "You can have this spot, there ain't no fish here." I pulled in 4 fish on my first 4 casts with him standing 25 feet away watching. That being said, I don't get pleasure from jacking fish behind anyone – it's super awkward and don't make any friends doing it. After he noticed and made comment, I stopped fishing and we chatted for a while, and it seemed the only difference could've been a better drag-free drift, getting to feeding depth quicker, and better strike detection using my euro-leader setup. I was using the simplest fly in my box – an olive Perdigon (a tungsten Spanish fly). 4. Can I still fish traditional patterns that I know are generally effective, such as midges, eggs, rubber legs, etc? Yes, you can. One of my most productive flies on the LMF is a 3.4mm tungsten Eggstasy Blob (egg pattern). If it's a really deep hole and it needs to get down quicker (say on Spillway Creek), I can always tie on another tungsten weighted nymph as a dropper. This replaces the need for split-shot and gives me better chances of hooking a fish in the run by having two flies. Midges, rubber legs, etc. Are handled in the same manner. 5. For those of you willing to share, what are your go to patterns for fishing this technique at the LMF? I will say, that on the LMF I've rarely encountered truly picky fish where they weren't willing to eat a handful of confidence patterns at any given time. I think stretches like Evening Hole for instance, at times, can come down to presentation and proper depth in the water column depending on the time of year and their corresponding feeding zone. 6. Are you tying your own leader or buying the commercially available competition leaders? Tying my own. You can purchase three spools for less than $20 and tie probably a dozen or more leaders that will last you quite a while, and they only take a few minutes to assemble. 7. Will this technique work in all water conditions or are there water types where I’ll still want to keep my bobber and shot handy? I keep only two Airlocks in my hip-pack, and rarely need to use them on the LMF. The only real time I need to reach for them is if I'm trying to target an area that is simply too far to get or cast to effectively and the water is generally pretty deep and slow, for instance the far side of the bluffs against the slated wall. Remember though, you can always grease your sighter (bi-solored mono section) with something like Loon Payette Paste to float it when fishing at distance, which will, in most situations, simulate most suspension methods, but do it better, IMO. As far as keeping shot handy, yes, there are times you'll still need it, usually fast currents when a river is running high volume, for instance. Rod length is key, though. I find a 10' 6", 3wt works best for this style. Protects the tippet better, better strike detection, farther reach, and better fighting the fish from the butt section. |
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Post by jonbo on May 29, 2018 19:38:34 GMT -6
Well, all I can say about the euro-method is that I have a rod that was NOT particularly designed for tight-lining. It's a 10', 4wt, TFO BVK. It has a pretty fast action which is not what I think euro-rods have. Plus it's a 4 wt, not a 3 wt. I just happen to have it (long story). So I decide to try out euro-nymphing. I have a 10' rod, I'm already halfway there,right? So I get myself a couple of 20'+ leaders. I can't really cast them at all. I can only kind of flop them around like a cat toy. I've found it frustrating, to say the least. I'm not sure, it could just be my own poor casting skill that's to blame, but I think that among other things you need to invest in an actual euro-nymphing rod if you want to give the method an honest go.
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Post by dainw on May 29, 2018 21:13:43 GMT -6
That was my next question, do I need to go ahead and buy a dedicated euro nymphing set up or will my 10 door 4 weight Allen rod be serviceable?
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Post by jonbo on May 29, 2018 21:37:16 GMT -6
I don't know. Try it. Go to Tactical Fly Fisher. Buy his videos, some flies, and a leader, and try it out. It may just be that my casting skills leave too much to be desired, but I haven't been able to manage the leader very well with my 10 ft 4wt BVK.
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Post by troutbum54 on May 30, 2018 0:22:09 GMT -6
It’s not really casting but rather lobbing the flies out. I mean with my 4wt bvk I just lob but my 2wt I can actually cast kind of but that’s why most people who Nymph further out use 10-11 ft rods in 2wt or a slower 3wt which has enough give to cast slightly
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Post by turfdawg on May 30, 2018 5:01:06 GMT -6
The lighter weight long rods do cast Euro rigs better.
I’ve bought and tried a Sage ESN (first generation), Redington Hydrogen, Orvis Recon Euro, Moonshine Epiphany and Douglas DXF. I’m using the Douglas right now and really like it for the price but the Orvis was the best casting rod and lightest. With the Sage, Orvis and Douglas I can cast my size 12 leach streamers 30’ with all mono.
All these rods were 10’ except the Moonshine is 10’6”. Haven’t tried a 11’ rod yet or a 2wt. They have all been 3wt except for the Sage and it was a 4
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Post by troutbum54 on May 30, 2018 10:24:02 GMT -6
You should check out the syndicate rods in 10’ or 11’ 2wt!
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Post by FlyAndStream on May 30, 2018 10:42:30 GMT -6
I'd throw in the Redington Hydrogen 3wt 11', and the Cortland MKII as well – both are excellent nymphing rods.
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Post by troutbum54 on May 30, 2018 11:18:38 GMT -6
If you really wanted to cast it you could invest in a 0wt Nymph rod! I bet it would be great for smaller flies and long lining
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Post by dainw on May 30, 2018 11:21:06 GMT -6
I read a euro nymph rod “shootout” comparison yesterday out of curiosity. For what it’s worth, Sage ESN and Winston’s nymph rod tied for first. Not spending $800 on a rod though, at least not a rod I can only do one thing with. Douglas DXF got high marks. Echo also got good marks with their offering. Redington Hydrogen was actually the lowest on the list and the Cortland rod was surprisingly low although it wasn’t the newest version that they have upgraded.
From what I gather in my reading, there tends to be a trade off between the better casting rods and those that are exceptionally sensitive to what’s going on with your flies. Have any of you found this to be true?
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Post by dainw on May 30, 2018 11:39:40 GMT -6
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Post by troutbum54 on May 30, 2018 11:48:20 GMT -6
I mean if you really wanted to get a taste for it the European made rods might be better. The maxia mx series is what a few of the European guys use and you can get it in a 10’ 2wt, 10’2” 0wt, 10’5” 3wt, and an 11’ 3wt here in America
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Post by FlyAndStream on May 30, 2018 13:04:00 GMT -6
I read a euro nymph rod “shootout” comparison yesterday out of curiosity. For what it’s worth, Sage ESN and Winston’s nymph rod tied for first. Not spending $800 on a rod though, at least not a rod I can only do one thing with. Douglas DXF got high marks. Echo also got good marks with their offering. Redington Hydrogen was actually the lowest on the list and the Cortland rod was surprisingly low although it wasn’t the newest version that they have upgraded. I haven't fished many of those rods personally, so I can't comment on what I don't know. I have fished with the two others I mentioned previously, though, and they both seemed like great rods for their designed purpose, at two very different price points. There may be better options at each price point – nice shootout report. From what I gather in my reading, there tends to be a trade off between the better casting rods and those that are exceptionally sensitive to what’s going on with your flies. Have any of you found this to be true? I wouldn't give as much priority to 'casting' when evaluating a dedicated euro nymphing rod, that may be just me though. After all, you're rarely 'casting' longer than 20ft away – your reach and rod make up for 12' of that. Sensitivity, IMO, should be one of the most important considerations, as well as a soft tip. The benefit of euro nymphing is keeping in constant contact with your flies. |
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Post by turfdawg on May 30, 2018 13:55:27 GMT -6
I'd throw in the Redington Hydrogen 3wt 11', and the Cortland MKII as well – both are excellent nymphing rods. Just my opinion but I thought my Hydrogen 10’ 3wt sucked. Way tip heavy, over all heavy and reminded me of those old CB antenna whips. |
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Post by troutbum54 on May 30, 2018 15:51:05 GMT -6
I have a hatch 3+ on my syndicate 2wt and it balances perfectly! The bright pink backing looks awesome on the black and silver reel.
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Post by lipripper1983 on May 30, 2018 16:40:58 GMT -6
The lighter weight long rods do cast Euro rigs better. I’ve bought and tried a Sage ESN (first generation), Redington Hydrogen, Orvis Recon Euro, Moonshine Epiphany and Douglas DXF. I’m using the Douglas right now and really like it for the price but the Orvis was the best casting rod and lightest. With the Sage, Orvis and Douglas I can cast my size 12 leach streamers 30’ with all mono. All these rods were 10’ except the Moonshine is 10’6”. Haven’t tried a 11’ rod yet or a 2wt. They have all been 3wt except for the Sage and it was a 4 What's your thoughts on that Moonshine epiphany? I've had my eye on that rod lately and I'm pondering euro-nymphing myself. |
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Post by lipripper1983 on May 30, 2018 16:42:56 GMT -6
I read that last week. Not surprised that the Sage was the better option. Wish they had included Moonshine Epiphany rod in the test. |
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Post by turfdawg on May 30, 2018 19:18:04 GMT -6
The lighter weight long rods do cast Euro rigs better. I’ve bought and tried a Sage ESN (first generation), Redington Hydrogen, Orvis Recon Euro, Moonshine Epiphany and Douglas DXF. I’m using the Douglas right now and really like it for the price but the Orvis was the best casting rod and lightest. With the Sage, Orvis and Douglas I can cast my size 12 leach streamers 30’ with all mono. All these rods were 10’ except the Moonshine is 10’6”. Haven’t tried a 11’ rod yet or a 2wt. They have all been 3wt except for the Sage and it was a 4 What's your thoughts on that Moonshine epiphany? I've had my eye on that rod lately and I'm pondering euro-nymphing myself. I actually haven’t fished the Moonshine Epiphany yet, got it for my wife. I think it’s a pretty nice looking rod. Not as nice as the higher price rods but nice. I am not a fan of the weight and how tip heavy it is. With a Cabelas RLS 7/8 reel full of backing and 4wt GPX line the balance point is right on the hook keeper. I know it’s going to be way better than the Hydrogen though and the price is good. If we go this weekend I’ll see if I can try it for a few minutes. |
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Post by cigarsnjeeps on May 30, 2018 19:26:01 GMT -6
I recently bought this setup off Amazon. The rod is a Housatonic Rod that is supposed to be based on the Cortland. But I haven't really had a chance to test it and since I'm a newb to Euro nymphing, I'm not good enough to tell if its a great setup or not, lol. Seems like a well constructed rod... Complete Cortland Competition Line Nymphing Setup from HRO (10' 3/4 Wt. Nymph Rod, Lamson Reel, Competition Line) www.amazon.com/dp/B01MYGLJHK/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_i_TcaeBbGR7KGJE |
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Post by dainw on May 30, 2018 20:46:25 GMT -6
Looks like a good set up to me. Don’t know anything about the rod but reel and line are great for the price point.
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Post by dainw on May 30, 2018 20:48:12 GMT -6
Question(s) for everyone, 10 foot or 11 foot? 2 weight or 3 weight?
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Post by lipripper1983 on May 30, 2018 21:27:11 GMT -6
Question(s) for everyone, 10 foot or 11 foot? 2 weight or 3 weight? If I'm not mistaken, the longer the rod the better. The whole idea is to get as much reach with your rod tip as possible so you can 1) cover more water and 2) not get too close to the fish and spook them. I'm sure there are other reasons for it, but thats off the top of my head. Personally If I were to get a nymphing specific rod I'd opt for a 10'6" 3wt. |
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I got 6 new books for my birthday. Give me a shout sometime.
