Euro nymphing...Have some questions

[troutbum54]

I have the Hatch 3+ on mine (it was a first gen clearances out) that I absolutely love

[dainw]

I’m sure your hatch reel is really nice, they make good stuff. But we’re talking about what reels to pair with a $200-$250 euro nymphing specific rod. I don’t know how much you paid for it on clearance, but most people aren’t going to pair a $500 reel with a $200 rod, especially if you’re using it to euro nymph. You basically need it to hold line and balance with the rod.

[jonbo]

Jun 21, 2018 6:04:19 GMT -6 dainw said:

I’m sure your hatch reel is really nice, they make good stuff. But we’re talking about what reels to pair with a $200-$250 euro nymphing specific rod. I don’t know how much you paid for it on clearance, but most people aren’t going to pair a $500 reel with a $200 rod, especially if you’re using it to euro nymph. You basically need it to hold line and balance with the rod.

Dain, if I do end up pulling the trigger on a 10' Echo with the extension kit, I'll probably try to match it with a Lamson Liquid 4/5. It has a good drag system. It's relatively heavy, part of its being cheap, but for the tip-heavy Echo, that's good. Tentatively I'm planning to line the rod with some WF line or other. When I tight line I'll use a 26' mono leader. If I decide to switch over to something else, probably swap out for a 9' tapered leader, maybe shorten the stick. We'll see. I still haven't gotten the nerve up to "pull the trigger ".

[Smallfry]

Jun 20, 2018 17:09:48 GMT -6 jonbo said:

I'll probably also buy a Lamson Liquid reel. The rod is said to be a little "tip heavy". The LL's I don't think are too light, so they just might balance well. Plus, they're drag system is supposed to be top notch.

I got the liquid with the 3 spool set this year from the flyshop, they should have some in stock if you wanna try it out on that rod and see how it feels. I love mine because of the extra spools, the drag is nice but honestly I haven't needed that yet. Mostly makes switching it up between floating and intermediate at the lake a ton easier.

I tight line with my 9' 5wt with a 5'6" furled leader (kinda like a sighter) and just adjust the tippet length to whatever the situation calls for. If my flies aren't heavy enough by themselves I'll use a drop shot system which seems to work pretty well for decreasing hangups. Setup is pretty short, more like Polish/Czech (I think?) and sometimes instead of two weighted flies I'll throw on an unweighted soft hackle or hares ear as a dropper.

[hankinsfly]

I think when I get serious about euro nymphing, I’ll probably put a vintage Stanley Bogdan in my cheapie euro rod. That way it’ll be so rad.

[jonbo]

Brah, you'd totally be the bomb.

[kovaku]

I have a buddy that is a Orvis endorsed guide and I managed to get a Recon and Hydros reel from him. I will be starting my euro nymphing adventure and look forward to getting into this style of fishing. As the man I normally fish with strictly nymphs I do believe I will stick with it. The Modern Nymphing video by Lance Eagan and Devin is a great video and well worth the purchase.

[jonbo]

I'm going to be trying out my Echo 10' 3 wt with extension kit this week on the Little Missouri. The area I'll be fishing is more of a dry-dropper spot than tight-line nymph, but I have to check out my new stick! Wish me luck. Kovaku, we need to get together this winter up on Spillway. 

[FlyAndStream]

I hear ya jonbo.

Moonshine Rods sent me their 10' 2wt Epiphany rod, and I just got some ultra-light leader setup to go match it: Maxima Chameleon 8lb, Amnesia 6lb, Cortland bi-indicator mono .009, tippet ring, Hanák competition fluorocarbon in 6x. I'm half tempted to drive up to Beavers Bend today and stand in the 100º sun all day just to give this setup a go.

[turfdawg]

Jul 3, 2018 8:32:52 GMT -6 FlyAndStream said:

I hear ya jonbo.

Moonshine Rods sent me their 10' 2wt Epiphany rod, and I just got some ultra-light leader setup to go match it: Maxima Chameleon 8lb, Amnesia 6lb, Cortland bi-indicator mono .009, tippet ring, Hanák competition fluorocarbon in 6x. I'm half tempted to drive up to Beavers Bend today and stand in the 100º sun all day just to give this setup a go.

I’ll be waiting for a rod review. Their 10’6” 3wt is a good price but very tip heavy compared to others.

[FlyAndStream]

turfdawg They're getting ready to come out with a new batch of the Epiphanys in a few weeks that will have a removable fighting butt (which will help balance the tip heaviness), it should have a new down-locking reel seat as well – but I guess that doesn't help you with yours.

[turfdawg]

Jul 3, 2018 9:15:44 GMT -6 FlyAndStream said:

turfdawg They're getting ready to come out with a new batch of the Epiphanys in a few weeks that will have a removable fighting butt (which will help balance the tip heaviness), it should have a new down-locking reel seat as well – but I guess that doesn't help you with yours.

The Moonshine Epiphany is actually my wife’s. I balanced it decent with a 7/8 RLS reel. I guess I should at least try it sometime but I really like my Douglas and Recon Euro rods

[dainw]

Talk to me about this balance thing and why it’s so important in euro nymphing? I mean I understand conceptually what you’re talking about but haven’t really given much thought to balance in prior rod/reel selections. Is it primarily a comfort concern of you have an unbalanced rod and you’re high sticking all day, you’re gonna have some shoulder pain? Or is there a functional advantage as well?

[jonbo]

From what I understand, it's the former. You've been asking a few questions about euro-sticking, Dain. You thinking of "pulling the trigger"? Turf-doggy: I really kind of wanted the Recon, but couldn't justify it. The Echo, when I took it out of the package, had some cheapness to it. Supposedly it fishes well. We'll see.

[dainw]

I mean yeah I’m gonna probably get into it once I start trout fishing again this fall. Not sure when I’m buying a new setup. Seems necessary but just not sure what or when yet.

[jonbo]

Well, I went and bought a Euro-outfit. I've had it out once. Here's the results, so far. I bought a 10 ft Echo Shadow II 3 wt for $250. I matched it with an Echo Ion II reel in a 4-5. I chose that because it's cheap and kind of heavy. They say these rods, and the Echo in particular, need a heavy reel to balance their tip heaviness. I also bought the extension kit that allows you to turn the rod into an 11 footer. This ran me $75. The whole set-up took me to somewhere around $450. I had kind of wanted an Orvis Recon, but $450 would have just gotten me the rod. It was a little out of budget.

I took it for a spin this weekend. We were camping at Lake Greeson, so I got to fish the Little Missouri tailwater just down the hill. At this time of year, with the heat, only an area the size of the Evening Hole is fishable. They've kept the flow this summer higher than in the past, so it's pretty nice. The fish seem active and not stressed. There's one little patch of "skinny", pocket type water, so I started there. I put the extension kit on with the fighting butt and counter weights that come with that kit. -They do not come with the rod itself.- The rod's perfectly "nice". You can tell it's cheaper-made than a high end Orvis or Sage or something, but you have to expect that. It tossed the long, long mono leader very well, in contrast to the 4 wt BVK I had been struggling with. I could fish close to myself or further out, and with some accuracy. I still don't know what I'm doing tight-lining. The guys who really review these rods talk about tip-sensitivity and ticking bottom, and stuff. I can't tell anything like that. I pulled a couple out of there.

Okay, I had the 11' extension kit on with the counter-weighted fighting butt. Uh, those counter-weights don't work well enough at 11'. Dain, I think, was asking what was the big deal with rod balancing. Well, I just found out it matters. The 11' rod is tip-heavy. You notice it right away. In 10 minutes it was bothering me. It wasn't long before I removed the 2 extension pieces and went with the 10' rod. I left the fighting butt with counter-weights on. This was a lot better. It was very slightly tip-heavy then, but not noticeable, really.

With the rod at 10', but with the fighting butt and counterweights on, it fished a whole lot better. I could tight-line effectively. I also threw an indicator while keeping the 26' leader on. It did that perfectly well out to about 20'. Then my line started coming through the guides and sagging, so I couldn't go further. I'm thinking of adding another 6' or so of MaxCham 25' to get even further.

I had lined the reel with Rio Grand that I got on sale. I bought the 3 weight. People were recommending "over-lining" this rod, and that's what Rio Grand effectively does. This was so I can indicator fish, emerger fish, dry fly, all with the same rod. Otherwise I would have bought "euro" running line and not had to worry about line sag. Then used a shorter leader while tight-lining. But with my system, when I'm through tight-lining awhile, I'll switch out leaders to a "normal" 7-9 footer and fish the old-fashioned way. So I tried doing that after awhile. It casted the Rio pretty well, a lot differently than the other graphite faster rods I have. I had to slow down the cast a lot. Then it was fine, not really "sweet", I'd say, not like my 7'9" Sage TFX, at all. The Rio Grand felt kind of heavy. If I just had a more neutral 3 wt WF line I'd like to try that. But I didn't buy this rod and line it the way I did to excell at throwing an old-fashioned fly-cast, just to be able to do it, and it did. Oh,yean. It fished a small bead-head wooly bugger nicely, too.

I landed a number of 13" fish. It fought them just fine. I did get the impression it might be a little more of a struggle with a larger fish, unlike the 10' 4wt BVK which loves a larger fish (but I just can't tight-line with it, at all).

Anyway, that's my $0.02 on the Echo Shadow II 3 wt. The fighting butt with counter-weights needs to come stock with the rod, but doesn't. When you uses them at 10', I think it fishes fine, does all I ask. But just as one of our members had warned me, the extensions, they really don't work that well. At 11' or even 10'6", you spend a lot of energy holding that tip up, counter-weights or no. But this rod allows me to both tight-line and fish traditionally with the same rod. In that respect, it does all I ask of it. It's just a bummer you have to spend $75 on the extension kit just to get the counter-weights and fighting butt which, IMO, are necessary items.

[hankinsfly]

Nice write-up, Jonbo. Looking forward to getting on the water with you someday and having you show me what you’ve learned. I imagine my 10’ rod is not IDEAL for this type of fishing, but I’ll give it a go anyhow. Are you going to the White at all this year?

[jonbo]

Howdy, Hank. Nope. I'm probably not going to the White anytime soon. I'm able to take one vacation a year of more than a couple of days. Last year we went to Bull Shoals. This time it will be somewhere else. I'm sure I can make Trout Camp, though! I'm not sure that at this point I'm the one to emulate with the tight-line nymphing. I'm still trying to figure it out. Supposedly it's a really productive method to fish for trout, but so far I just get average productivity, at best. What we ought to do is tag along after Turfdawg one of these days. He's really happy with the method. Maybe some others are, as well, and will weigh in. I gave my initial impression of the 10' Echo 3 wt. Some other guys have bought or been looking at some other sticks, something about Moonshine or Moonbeam, or something. I'd be curious to read what their first impressions are.

[turfdawg]

Jonbo, if y’all are watching me the only thing you might learn is how to do it wrong or maybe how bad I am.

[FlyAndStream]

Moonshine is selling their original stock of Epiphany nymphing rods, 10' 2wt, for $149 while supplies last. I have this rod, I think it's great, though it needs to be pair with a slightly larger reel to balance out properly. I use a Redington Behemoth 5/6 on mine, with backing and line it balances just right at the cork. Just thought I throw this out there in case someone was interested in a dedicated nymphing rod combo at minimal cost $250ish.