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Post by sulross on May 28, 2019 14:45:07 GMT -6
Saw this while getting a quick bite at the restaurant in the park. I did not take a photo of any of the signatures, only the portion of the petition that is shown here. I did not want to get into privacy issues. This just hit me in the gut. It has been tough seeing how many people raft/swim/throw rocks/use barbs and bait in the Red Zone over the past year. The new parking and picnic tables are lovely, but they send a mixed message, or unclear one, to the people who park there and want to use the area. I know we've recently discussed on a thread here that the signage that was taken down makes it unclear as to who can use the water and for what purpose. If this zone is taken out, I'm not sure what the impact would be, but my experience tells me that it would most likely be too much pressure on those sections. I'm not confident it would be good for the long term health of the trout fishery. I am not a biologist, though. It seems that Hochatown has an economic boom and growth cycle that is on the upward trend. I like the stronger economy for the area. The casino will add to that, yet again. McCurtain County is growing, but how do we protect the LMF trout fishery? Thoughts?
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Post by turfdawg on May 28, 2019 17:55:04 GMT -6
I personally agree that the Cold Hole area should be a blue zone. I know several of us were wanting to trade Cold Hole area for upper spillway
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Post by danimal on May 28, 2019 18:26:28 GMT -6
I'm with turfdog. Give em cold hole (and stock the heck out of it for them) in exchange for upper spillway. EH and the bluffs need to remain protected for the spawners.
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Post by FlyAndStream on May 28, 2019 19:11:20 GMT -6
Good to know. I’ll never give Shady Oaks restaurants my money again.
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Post by Smallfry on May 28, 2019 20:02:22 GMT -6
Yeah opening Cold Hole isn't a bad idea at all, I'd be all for it. My mom prefers to catch and keep and her knees aren't in the best shape. CH would be perfect for her to pull up a lawn chair and throw out a bobber. Eliminating the entire Red Zone is kinda extreme though. I don't appreciate that children and other people are being used as an excuse. I have met plenty of spin/gear people on the river who just enjoy fishing and aren't bothered with limiting out or keeping fish at all. I hate messin with natural baits and anything scented or doughy so everything is artificial even when I have a rod set up for my 3 year old. I smash barbs for all my tackle too and that hasn't been an issue with landing trout, crappie, bass or even catfish. Anyone can enter the Red Zone to fish all you have to do is make the proper accommodations. It's about as exclusive as a business with a "no shirt, no shoes, no service" sign.
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Post by breeden3 on May 28, 2019 20:41:40 GMT -6
Clearly this can't be allowed to happen. Talk about selfish. The ENITRE river for the most part is a blue zone. And WAY more fish are stocked in the blue zones than anywhere else. The trout derby wasn't a success because it was on a non-stocking week and current regulations allow every fish that is stocked to pretty much be pulled out of the river in the first week. Maybe limit your keep and there will still be trout. I will say I went up there the day after the derby and caught plenty of trout, so maybe they are just tired of being constantly pounded by it and don't eat it anymore?
What is funny is that apparently everybody is under the impression that fly fishermen hate bait and gear fishermen. I personally am one of two serious fly fishermen in my entire family. My WHOLE family fishes gear or bait. I know most of the people on here are probably the same way with their friends and families.
There is a major disconnect between the people that only want to take from the river, and the rest of us. They see us as fly fishermen who only want to keep everybody out, when really, we just want to see what is best for the river. Removing the Red Zone is not what is best for the river. There is a reason that the fish spawn successfully in the Red Zone. There is a reason everybody wants to poach the Red Zone. Maybe because protecting fish actually works and keeps fish in the river while the rest of it is pillaged.
Tight Lines, Peter
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Post by Smallfry on May 28, 2019 20:57:37 GMT -6
So who exactly started the petition anyway? Did they know the state was already lookin at switchin up the regulations?? I have so many questions...
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Post by coldwaterfly on May 29, 2019 6:19:55 GMT -6
The Hell?
This would be irreversibly detrimental to spawning habitat.
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Post by FlyAndStream on May 29, 2019 7:25:20 GMT -6
Don Groom mentioned they’re soliciting rezoning feedback from all groups with an interest in the fishery, so I would assume that includes spin/bait community too. breeden3 is right, though, it’s selfish plain and simple. Their leading statement is a straw man argument based on logical fallacy anyways: "The red zone regulations create an area that limits access to a certain group of fisherman." Therefore, red zone restriction should be removed. In no way does ODFW red zone fishing regulations limit access of any one person, including "families, children, elderly, and handicapped". What it does limit, is not access, but rather methods used for catching and killing fish. Besides, the red zone is not 'fly fishing only' like many trout streams and sections found in other states. Lastly, I think Shady Oaks is crapping the bed by soliciting their customers that way, which ironically includes fly fisherman who travel hours to fish the red zone, then spend money to eat lunch at their establishment just like sulross did.
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Post by dannys on May 29, 2019 7:25:36 GMT -6
If that petition goes anywhere, it looks like the State will have to decide what is more important--have areas where the trout can and will successfully spawn, as well as provide a great Special Reg Water, or succumb to the pressure of folks who take the initiative of presenting and signing a petition to get rid of Red Zones. Hopefully, the State will not just make an arbitrary decision based on the fact there is such a petition. Maybe there should be a petition that keeps some Red Zones and turns other parts (like Cold Hole) into Blue Zones. Give and take (as many of you suggest) rather than all take (the petition's position).
Gotta hope for the best! There is some confidence on my part the State will work to keep everyone happy.
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Post by danimal on May 29, 2019 8:00:50 GMT -6
Don Groom mentioned they’re soliciting rezoning feedback from all groups with an interest in the fishery, so I would assume that includes spin/bait community too. breeden3 is right, though, it’s selfish plain and simple. I think it’s self-defeating for Shady Oaks to get involved by soliciting their customers that way, which includes fly fisherman who travel hours to fish the red zone, then spend money to eat lunch at their establishment. We should start our own petition of people who will no longer take our business to Shady Oaks because of their involvement in this. They might be surprised.
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Post by turfdawg on May 29, 2019 8:04:17 GMT -6
Remember that the same people own Shady Oaks and the park restaurant
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Post by okieman71 on May 29, 2019 10:53:39 GMT -6
It does make sense to make the cold hole blue. If the state would reopen the Cypress run which adds fishable water and incredible shady habitat, the LMFRF has all but agreed to supply a foot bridge across the Cypress run and a second one across the fast channel between the CH and the bluffs. This foot bridge would serve as a hard boundary between blue & red one. In addition they should make a portion of Spillway red as a trade for giving up cold hole. In lieu of the fact that there is tons of undeniable evidence that the trout are successfully reproducing in the LMF, one would think that Don and the other powers that be will take the necessary steps to preserve this fishery and improve the habitat. So much of it is just common sense. I too will forgo spending my hard earned dollars in any establishment that allows or promotes any propaganda or steps toward harming our fishery. The sad part of a petition like that is most who sign it don't even understand what a Red or Blue zone is much less what it takes to have quality spawning habitat and a quality fishery. The major contradiction is the same people that complain about the lack of fish are the ones taking them out of the river.
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Post by Smallfry on May 29, 2019 11:30:03 GMT -6
So I'm a loser, anyway...
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Post by Fenwick on May 29, 2019 12:45:18 GMT -6
Boy the way Glen Miller played songs that made the Hit Parade Guys like us we had it made....
*sigh*
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Post by FlyAndStream on May 29, 2019 14:30:06 GMT -6
So, Smallfry I guess that means Squirmies are a no-go in the red zone then... or does it? 'made by fly-tying', ha!
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Post by Smallfry on May 29, 2019 14:51:43 GMT -6
So, Smallfry I guess that means Squirmies are a no-go in the red zone then... or does it? 'made by fly-tying', ha! Haha, I always forget bout them types! Dunno how cuz squirminator is the best name ever 😂 I just saw where some ppl claimed that red zones were fly only and they're not. Aaand last time I was up a family was there and the guy said "This area must be fly fishing only", I told them it wasn't. They looked at me confused.
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Post by huntnfish2much on May 29, 2019 20:44:28 GMT -6
] Lastly, I think Shady Oaks is crapping the bed by soliciting their customers that way, which ironically includes fly fisherman who travel hours to fish the red zone, then spend money to eat lunch at their establishment just like sulross did. [ I'll never spend another dime in there! All the years I've been visiting and fishing at Beavers Bend, I've never been in a restaurant that is more negative toward fly fisher folks. Is the "No Waders" sign still up in there? JR
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Post by turfdawg on May 30, 2019 3:36:20 GMT -6
] Lastly, I think Shady Oaks is crapping the bed by soliciting their customers that way, which ironically includes fly fisherman who travel hours to fish the red zone, then spend money to eat lunch at their establishment just like sulross did. [ I'll never spend another dime in there! All the years I've been visiting and fishing at Beavers Bend, I've never been in a restaurant that is more negative toward fly fisher folks. Is the "No Waders" sign still up in there? JR Shady Oaks allows you to wear waders and your boots in the restaurant. The park restaurant, which has the same owners now, and Stevens Gap restaurant does not allow waders.
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Post by mirvc17 on May 30, 2019 7:07:32 GMT -6
Maybe some polite education to the Shady Oaks owners about how they are wrong might be a good way to go about it?
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Post by breeden3 on May 30, 2019 7:41:06 GMT -6
The people who owned Shady Oaks actually sold the restaurant on 259 so that one is now owned by different people.
They do still own the park restaurant though so if you are going to avoid one, that is the one to avoid.
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Post by turfdawg on May 30, 2019 11:02:34 GMT -6
The people who owned Shady Oaks actually sold the restaurant on 259 so that one is now owned by different people. They do still own the park restaurant though so if you are going to avoid one, that is the one to avoid. I thought they told me last week that they still owned both of them. I had my usual Shady Oaks cheeseburger. But I really do need some more hearing aids
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Post by flymaster on May 30, 2019 23:52:05 GMT -6
Shady Oaks is owned by different people for almost a year now. The park restaurant and Shady Oaks has no connections. Don't take it out on Shady Oaks.
Why are yall taking it so personal? Just ignore the petition.
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Post by turfdawg on May 31, 2019 4:25:14 GMT -6
Shady Oaks is owned by different people for almost a year now. The park restaurant and Shady Oaks has no connections. Don't take it out on Shady Oaks. Why are yall taking it so personal? Just ignore the petition. Why the heck would I want to ignore something that is trying to do something that will negatively impact me
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Post by huntnfish2much on May 31, 2019 11:00:36 GMT -6
Shady Oaks is owned by different people for almost a year now. The park restaurant and Shady Oaks has no connections. Don't take it out on Shady Oaks. Why are yall taking it so personal? Just ignore the petition. Why the heck would I want to ignore something that is trying to do something that will negatively impact me Agreed, Bill. This negatively impacts not only the fly fisherpeople, but in a round about way, everyone who wants to enjoy this area. There WILL be more trash left streamside. There WILL be more poaching. There WON'T be holdover fish. I could get really political about ignoring the issues. Bury your head in the sand. Look the other way. It won't have any affect on ME. YEAH, RIGHT!! JR
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