|
Post by jt8fishing on Dec 2, 2019 18:09:18 GMT -6
Proposed Changes to Fish, Wildlife Rules Now Open for Public Comments Each year, the Oklahoma Department of Wildlife Conservation proposes changes in Title 800, the administrative rules that govern hunting, fishing and Wildlife Department operations. The public comment period for this year's proposed rule changes open Dec. 2 and will close at 4:30 p.m. Jan. 3, 2020. Many proposed changes are simple housekeeping matters, while some are more substantial. Some of this year's rule change proposals include: Increase the deer gun hunting season by adding seven days to the end of the current season. Open all of Osage County to pheasant hunting. Establish restrictions on importing cervid carcasses or carcass parts to help prevent potential chronic wasting disease infectious materials from coming into Oklahoma from out of state. Expand Lower Mountain Fork River Trout Area boundaries and revise trout size limits, bag limits, and tackle restrictions. Remove the minimum length limit for blue and channel catfish at Lake Texoma. To read all of the proposed rule changes, go to www.wildlifedepartment.com/public-meeting. Anyone wishing to make comments on any of the proposed rule changes may do so in one of three ways: Fill out the online public comment form at www.wildlifedepartment.com/public-meeting. The online public comment period closes at 4:30 p.m. Jan. 3, 2020. Write your comments in a letter and mail to Oklahoma Department of Wildlife Conservation, Re: Public Comment, P.O. Box 53465, Oklahoma City, OK 73152. Letters must be postmarked by Jan. 3, 2020. Voice your comments in person during one of two public hearings beginning at 7 p.m. Jan. 2, 2020. Hearings are scheduled at the Wildlife Department headquarters, 1801 N. Lincoln Blvd. in Oklahoma City, and at Broken Bow Public Library, 404 N. Broadway in Broken Bow. All public comments are collected and reviewed by the Oklahoma Wildlife Conservation Commission. Commissioners are expected to consider the proposed changes at their regular February meeting.
|
|
|
Post by sulross on Dec 2, 2019 18:25:57 GMT -6
Here are the LMF recommendations:
• Reduces Lower Mountain Fork River Trout Area rainbow trout bag limits from Broken Bow Dam to State Park Dam from six (6) to three (3) daily of which only one (1) may be greater than twenty-five (25) inches in total length. • Reduces Lower Mountain Fork River Trout Area rainbow trout bag limits from State Park Dam to U.S. Highway 70 to one (1) rainbow twenty-five (25) inches or greater. • Reduces the Lower Mountain Fork River Trout Area brown trout bag limit to one fish of thirty (30) inches or more • Expand Lower Mountain Fork River Trout Area to include a portion from Rough Branch Creek to the re-regulation dam. • Eliminates bait restrictions; restricts entire Lower Mountain Fork River Trout Area to barbless hooks.
At the last LMF Foundation meeting, the word was that they were shooting to have that last regulation be "one single barbless hook." That would have taken double and treble hook lures out of the equation. It seems here that they are just changing it to barbless, which will be tough to tell, whereas a single hook would be easy to see vs. a double, or treble. Losing the Red Zones, this would have been preferred - to have single hooks only - it would be easier on the fish. The fish in Zone 2 should fair well with the 25" and 30" size limit for harvest. The sizes on the trout are comical on the brown trout, but it will help protect them from harvest pretty much everywhere.
|
|
|
Post by jt8fishing on Dec 2, 2019 18:39:41 GMT -6
Thanks for getting that in.
|
|
|
Post by breeden3 on Dec 2, 2019 19:29:09 GMT -6
These changes are interesting. They should certainly benefit the brown trout population. I do imagine our wild rainbow population will virtually disappear. When none of the spawning waters are protected, they will be mercilessly yanked off their spawning beds. In my opinion that is the only reason to even have a protected zone. Also, there are almost zero rainbow trout over 25" on the LMF. I have seen maybe 2 or 3 legitimate 25+ inch rainbows in my entire time guiding and fishing the LMF. A lot in the 20-23" range, a few more 24" fish. Most people grossly over estimate the size of their fish so that accounts for reports of bigger.
Barbless hooks dont do much for the trout when they completely swallow the salmon eggs or power bait. The proposed regs should make the regs easier to enforce so that is a plus. I just don't see how this will help the state out with their fish numbers. They will all still be caught out. Instead of many people going home skunked, the people that would normally be skunked will be taking their 3 home. So in effect the same number of fish will be taken out.
In my opinion, the only way to make the LMF a truly great trout fishery again is to make Spillway creek Catch and Release water. Or at least from the Spillway to the 10 ft water fall. The state will save a lot of money and fish by doing that.
1. They never have to repair the river. The spillway creek now is unrepairable. It is a great as it is so now the state has solved the problem of people complaining about no red zone repairs. 2. Best trout habitat on the river. Deep pools, pocket water, runs, and riffles lead to great protection for the fish. Also had the highest populations of "bug life" out of all sites sampled. 3. And most important, the fish in Spillway creek will never have problems with water temps. Even in the worst summers, the temperatures are more than survivable for trout. 4. The abundance of habitat leads to a much higher survival rate for the trout. More trout survival, combined with a probable wild population established if catch and release, means less frequent stockings in Spillway, which frees up more fish for the lower stretches of the river, or the catch and keep crowd. Areas that don't see many stockings get more stockings, which leads to more fish overall in the lower river. (Lower meaning anything below Cold Hole Bridge). 5. Much more difficult to poach. Making Spillway C&R will not eliminate poaching, it will always occur by those wanting to cheat and break the law. However, it is much more difficult to poach Spillway than say the Cold Hole, Bluffs, Evening Hole, etc. 6. Yes, Spillway is tougher to wade and fish. It is argued that you have to get out and wade it to be successful, which is dangerous for some people. However, if the Spillway is C&R, then there will be proper numbers of fish holding where they should be. This will make many easily accessible runs in Spillway productive. 7. Although technically maybe a mile of water, the Spillway fishes more like a mile and a half to two miles of water with the number of fishable spots it has. This helps alleviate some of the over crowding issues on the river.
IT SHOULD ALSO BE NOTED BY ANYBODY READING THIS THAT I AM NOT ADVOCATING SPILLWAY BE FLY FISHING/LURES ONLY. I AM STATING IT SHOULD BE CATCH AND RELEASE, BARBLESS ONLY. BAIT FISHERMEN COULD STILL FISH IT WITH BARBLESS HOOKS AND RELEASING THE FISH.
All in all, I feel like this is the only way for the river to truly thrive again. You make the head strong, and the rest follows suit. I like to remain optimistic, especially with the brown trout, but the reality is, people just don't know they are browns, or don't care and keep them anyways, so I don't know if the protections would truly help. I hope I am proven wrong!
Peter
|
|
|
Post by breeden3 on Dec 2, 2019 19:43:16 GMT -6
Also, it should be noted that I believe the only way Z2 and Z3 will ever come back will be if they give a minimum one hr of water release out of the power house every day from June-September, even on days with no generation scheduled. Say run it from 11:00 am until 12:00 pm. This will ensure cold water for the afternoon which is when temps get the worst. Thousands of brown trout have been released into Z2 since the floods and we rarely encounter them, let alone in the numbers they should be in down there if they were thriving.
Or they can go down into the lake a draw colder water in the 40s out of the Spillway. That would certainly do it. Both are probably pipe dreams.
|
|
|
Post by jonbo on Dec 3, 2019 5:56:54 GMT -6
I'm also really in favor of making US a red zone. It seems to me the ideal place for that.
|
|
|
Post by sulross on Dec 3, 2019 8:15:53 GMT -6
We can all show up on Jan. 02nd at 7:00 p.m. at the Broken Bow Library and make our suggestions in person. I plan on doing so. I want to recommend a single barbless hook to see if they would consider banning double and treble hooks. I understand your sentiments and thoughts on it, Peter, but I think this would greatly help reduce the use of nasty lures across all of the trout areas with the loss of the Red Zones. Of course, this could affect fly fishermen and women by installing a rule that might ultimately go to one single hook on a line, but I could live with that if it gives the fishery a better chance of survival.
I like your thoughts on discharging water each day during the summer, too, Peter. Sadly, I agree with your concern that it is probably wishful thinking. It never hurts to suggest it in person and have several of us there to show agreement and support for it.
|
|
|
Post by breeden3 on Dec 3, 2019 10:42:01 GMT -6
Brad, I agree the single barbless hook could help the fishery, but only if it is enforced. I don't see it being enforced consistently though (the McCurtain County game wardens have their hands full already). Same thing goes for lower limits. That is another reason I believe the Spillway C&R is a necessity. It is the most difficult water to access and fish, which already gives it a higher degree of protection than the other parts of the river. It will require minimal enforcement and change. That is what makes it the most viable long term solution on the river.
Also another argument against Z2. The Corps of Engineers now generates like clock work every single week day. The makes Zone 2 unfishable roughly 70% of the time. It also does not have a lot of water options, so it will get just as crowded as EH or other parts of the river on the weekends when it is fishable.
|
|
|
Post by glitchmo on Dec 3, 2019 10:50:42 GMT -6
Single barbless effectively bans lure fishermen. No one is going to rerig their super duper with a single hook.
You can reasonably argue that as a good thing, but the more numerous spin fishermen are going to perceive that proposal as an attack.
I didn’t see it stated, but my understanding of the discussion here is that the proposal does away with the red/blue zones and makes the entire river subject to one set of rules. Is that correct?
|
|
|
Post by breeden3 on Dec 3, 2019 11:11:31 GMT -6
There are different rules proposed for different stretches of the river. Example Spillway Dam to Old Park Dam. Old Park Dam to Highway 70 bridge. Giving up the possibility for Spillway Creek to be C&R is a bad idea. Make it to where EVERYBODY can fish, they just have to release the fish and use barbless hooks. That excludes nobody. Z2 is fishable maybe 2 days of the week. Which means the same for Z3.
The good news is that if the regs go through, Spillway will still be more protected than it already is. It is the Cold Hole, Bluffs, EH, and everywhere else that will suffer because of the new regs. Maybe I am wrong and Z2 will start holding great fish again. It will be nice down there, if you can actually fish it around generation schedules.
|
|
|
Post by sulross on Dec 3, 2019 11:56:01 GMT -6
I love Z2, but it has been a nightmare with the heat over the summer/fall and then the release schedule falling more during fishing hours than at night. I'm totally on board with seeing Spillway Creek go to C&R. As for the lure guys, most of the lure manufacturers offer a single hook version of their product. Eddie could conceivably carry a few if he felt it was worth it; if not, a local business in Hochatown would surely find a way to sell them.
|
|
|
Post by glitchmo on Dec 3, 2019 13:08:54 GMT -6
There are different rules proposed for different stretches of the river. Example Spillway Dam to Old Park Dam. Old Park Dam to Highway 70 bridge. Giving up the possibility for Spillway Creek to be C&R is a bad idea. Make it to where EVERYBODY can fish, they just have to release the fish and use barbless hooks. That excludes nobody. Z2 is fishable maybe 2 days of the week. Which means the same for Z3. The good news is that if the regs go through, Spillway will still be more protected than it already is. It is the Cold Hole, Bluffs, EH, and everywhere else that will suffer because of the new regs. Maybe I am wrong and Z2 will start holding great fish again. It will be nice down there, if you can actually fish it around generation schedules. Oh, ok. I just reread. It looks like most of the popular areas in the park would be under a single set of regs. Which, honestly, is probably good. It was confusing and I assume made enforcement (more) difficult. I definitely agree with the proposal to make spillway C&R only. It's clearly the best water; certainly it reminds me the most of trout streams out west. And yeah, because of the difficult access it provides the most protection from fishermen as well as predators. I just think ... it's Oklahoma. Trying to get to C&R regulations is going to be an incredibly uphill battle.
|
|
|
Post by mirvc17 on Dec 3, 2019 16:36:23 GMT -6
When my wife or kids want to spin fish with a lure I snip two of the hooks off with wire cutters. Anyone can do that......easy.
|
|
|
Post by jonbo on Dec 3, 2019 16:55:44 GMT -6
Peter or anyone, Art TPTB interested at all in any of our input, in any forum, do you know? I'm 100% for making Upper Spillway a Red Zone, if it's the only one, for all the reasons you mentioned. Does anyone making decisions care what we think? Because I'd like it if we could put some gentle pressure.
|
|
|
Post by greenman on Dec 7, 2019 10:04:17 GMT -6
Here are the LMF recommendations: • Reduces Lower Mountain Fork River Trout Area rainbow trout bag limits from Broken Bow Dam to State Park Dam from six (6) to three (3) daily of which only one (1) may be greater than twenty-five (25) inches in total length. • Reduces Lower Mountain Fork River Trout Area rainbow trout bag limits from State Park Dam to U.S. Highway 70 to one (1) rainbow twenty-five (25) inches or greater. • Reduces the Lower Mountain Fork River Trout Area brown trout bag limit to one fish of thirty (30) inches or more • Expand Lower Mountain Fork River Trout Area to include a portion from Rough Branch Creek to the re-regulation dam. • Eliminates bait restrictions; restricts entire Lower Mountain Fork River Trout Area to barbless hooks. At the last LMF Foundation meeting, the word was that they were shooting to have that last regulation be "one single barbless hook." That would have taken double and treble hook lures out of the equation. It seems here that they are just changing it to barbless, which will be tough to tell, whereas a single hook would be easy to see vs. a double, or treble. Losing the Red Zones, this would have been preferred - to have single hooks only - it would be easier on the fish. The fish in Zone 2 should fair well with the 25" and 30" size limit for harvest. The sizes on the trout are comical on the brown trout, but it will help protect them from harvest pretty much everywhere. Sulross, I just read the proposal, you left out that: ALL rainbow trout less than twenty-five (25) inches in total length must be returned to the water immediately after being taken from the lower Mountain Fork River trout area from the State Park Dam downstream to the U.S. Highway 70 Bridge and All brown trout less than thirty (30) inches in total length must be returned to the water immediately after being taken from the lower Mountain Fork River trout area. This seems to make the daily limit effectively only one rainbow per day, if you can land one over 25 inches and one brown over 30 inches if there is one in the river. If these changes go into effect and are enforced there will be a LOT of unhappy anglers wanting to pull stockers out on friday mornings. This could also mean that they are planning on changing the stocking schedule or reducing it to only a handful of times a year. These will be no need to dump hundreds of 10 inch fish in every other week if no one can pull them out for frying pans.
|
|
|
Post by breeden3 on Dec 7, 2019 16:53:22 GMT -6
The rainbow trout 25” or better only applies from Old Park Dam through Highway 70. Or Z2 and Z3. It doesn’t apply to inside the park. The brown trout limit would be river wide.
|
|
|
Post by greenman on Dec 8, 2019 6:45:26 GMT -6
The rainbow trout 25” or better only applies from Old Park Dam through Highway 70. Or Z2 and Z3. It doesn’t apply to inside the park. The brown trout limit would be river wide. Tanks Breeden, I was reading that and my mind was translating "Old Park Dam" to spillway dam. I know the difference it is just a working weekend and mind is just distracted.
|
|
|
Post by sulross on Dec 8, 2019 22:06:25 GMT -6
The rainbow trout 25” or better only applies from Old Park Dam through Highway 70. Or Z2 and Z3. It doesn’t apply to inside the park. The brown trout limit would be river wide. Tanks Breeden, I was reading that and my mind was translating "Old Park Dam" to spillway dam. I know the difference it is just a working weekend and mind is just distracted. Just got back from camping/fishing and saw this and was confused by your first post, but now it makes sense on the names of the dams. If I recall correctly, I took that verbiage on names from the official proposed changes document.
|
|
|
Post by greyghost on Dec 11, 2019 7:00:25 GMT -6
...Same thing goes for lower limits. That is another reason I believe the Spillway C&R is a necessity. It is the most difficult water to access and fish, which already gives it a higher degree of protection than the other parts of the river. It will require minimal enforcement and change. That is what makes it the most viable long term solution on the river. I agree completely. Since the PTB decided to make the EH accessible to everyone the quality of fishing there has gone steadily downhill. FFs should protect SC because it's the last stretch of truly technical fly fishing water on the river. I'm too old to wade the Creek now but I still wouldn't want to see it change, it's the best water for FF for many, many miles.
|
|
|
Post by coldwaterfly on Dec 27, 2019 11:25:49 GMT -6
SWC spells wading doom for short guys like myself, but in the favor of fish I’d give up EH.
When would these rule changes take effect?
|
|
|
Post by dlinzy on Dec 29, 2019 21:27:15 GMT -6
If they would put any effort in the stocking points and spread the fish out they would have a chance of surviving one or possibly two weekends. Upper Cardiac, Lower Cardiac Blue Pipe are places where fish can move round, dump them at the base of the dam or Rereg and they're easy pickings. Gone are the days where they drove up the west side and dropped them every 50 ft or so in the pools. And don't even get me started with the raping going on in cold hole to and along the bluffs. Until there's sizable numbers of eatable not 6" - 9" there will never be 24" fish in the river.
|
|
|
Post by Texastroutfisher on Jan 22, 2020 12:21:55 GMT -6
Any updates yet?
|
|
|
Post by texasflycaster on Feb 4, 2020 16:07:47 GMT -6
I'd say the same: Any updates yet? For a lot of reasons, I haven't been there in years, but I have a lot of time on my hands now!
|
|
|
Post by schrederman on Feb 5, 2020 19:37:47 GMT -6
My son and I will be up there the week beginning the 16th... Are any of these proposed changes in effect?
|
|
|
Post by jt8fishing on Feb 6, 2020 5:51:05 GMT -6
The proposed changes will be voted on at the commission meeting Feb. 11th. At this time the previous regulations are in force.
|
|