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Post by dainw on Apr 5, 2015 12:46:31 GMT -6
Made the trip to Oklahoma's other year round trout fishery yesterday with my Dad. We arrived at the Watts area about 7:30 am and started fishing the hole below the parking lot immediately. The river looks like it's in some of the best shape I've seen it in. There were fish everywhere and they were really active. My usual strategy at the Illinois river is to wade out to the middle of the river channel and throw streamers either at likely holding spots, or areas where I see fish rising (the rising fish here usually aren't too picky). I started out throwing a slumpbuster and caught 4 or 5 fish nice rainbows right off the bat. Dad was fishing an olive woolly bugger and caught several himself. I switched to the woolly bugger after about 30 minutes and proceeded to pick up several more rainbows. After a while I tied on an olive zebra midge trailer and caught 6 baby browns, all about 6" in length. Fished the hole below the parking lot for about an hour and a half. between us, we each caught about 15 fish and decided to move down river to the red zone between the stream gauge and gravel pit road. There's big riffle that we call the "rock garden" and there's a big slow flat above it that always seems to hold lots of fish. We continued to throw streamers and picked up a couple more fish, but the action had slowed considerably by now, but there were rising fish everywhere. The midge hatch at the LIR is really small, like a size 24 or 26. I'm not very good at fishing big dry flies, let alone something I can't even see. So we started fishing small midge patterns about 18" below and indicator and the action was back on. I fished and RS2, ruby midge, zebra midge and both patterns caught fish. Dad fished with a ruby midge, lightning bug, and redass. The fish down in this section seemed stronger than the fish further up river. I had one fish put me on the reel, and it was only 14" long. Also caught some very colorful fish. Sometimes the fish in this section get very dark, almost purple coloring. These also seem to be the strongest fish. Called it a day about 3:30, each catching about 30 or so. We also spoke to some game wardens on the way out. They said that they had certified an 11 lb 4 oz rainbow earlier that day at the dam that should become the new Oklahoma state record. No idea what it was caught on.
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Post by mirvc17 on Apr 5, 2015 13:27:03 GMT -6
Nice report! No pictures??
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Post by dainw on Apr 5, 2015 14:43:30 GMT -6
Sorry no pics. I don't trust myself to not drop my phone in the water and haven't invested in a water proof camera yet. Its on the though.
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Post by plastic worm on Apr 6, 2015 20:21:17 GMT -6
A friend sent me this today:
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Post by mirvc17 on Apr 6, 2015 21:04:32 GMT -6
Holy cow. What a porker... I get it that it's likely the new state record, but because it was bound for a private fishery and turns out in a river kind of bums me out. Truly accidental that it was even available to be caught. Also kind of bum that the fish is dead. But seriously, how much larger could this fish have gotten if it had been released??
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Post by TAStockton on Apr 6, 2015 22:18:10 GMT -6
Im just glad the state record will no longer be from a lake that gets stocked every winter. That was just lame.
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Post by golferjeff on Apr 7, 2015 10:20:57 GMT -6
Good story either way. Great fish. There was a fish about that big in Spillway Creek last year. Several of us saw it, a few hooked it, but nobody landed it.
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Post by jcw355 on Apr 8, 2015 4:43:38 GMT -6
Catching a fish that size would be great, but being it was a "state record" from the hatchery, leaves an asterik by it in my mind. Hatcheries are full of state records.Still exciting non the less.
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Post by dainw on Apr 8, 2015 8:34:53 GMT -6
I don't know, to me it doesn't make much of a difference. Rainbow trout aren't native to Oklahoma anyway, and there's only one river in the state where there has been documented reproduction, so to be fair, every state record rainbow that has ever been caught in Oklahoma came from a hatchery. I think the guy did a heck of a job just to land that fish on a 5 weight. I have a hard enough time pulling in 12 inch stockers! Plus it's awesome that we have a fly-caught state record. The last one was caught on a super duper.
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Post by breeden3 on Apr 8, 2015 9:10:32 GMT -6
To me, it does make a difference. I personally find that is a very unattractive fish, no doubt a very recent stocker. I wouldn't have much interest in catching a fresh stocker that big. A fish like that would eat just about anything thrown in front of it. I will also agree that there should only be two places in Oklahoma that a record can be caught from, one being the Lower Illinois River and the other being the LMF. Both of those places hold year round trout, even though the Lower Illinois doesn't have any reproduction. I just don't think it is cool (in my opinion) to catch a big trout that was 100% artificially grown to that size. At least this "record" was caught out of a year round trout stream.
Also, Oklahoma should implement a C&R record system, like Colorado and several other states, that allows for state record measurements so that the fish can be released. I would never dream of keeping a fish that big, and I, as well as a couple of the other guides, have caught fish that would break the record out of the LMF, if you believe the formula they put online for length and girth measurements. T.A. and the other guides can verify that. Hopefully, we can get the Red Zones to one day be pure C&R. No need to have even one fish over 20" limit. If you really want a mount, take a picture, get the length and girth, and get a fiber glass mount. It will last longer anyways.
Sorry for the rant, but we have a very unique thing going on here, with there being reproduction, a stretch of tailwater that very rarely gets generated, and no true winter season which allows the trout to get to enormous size very quickly if given the chance. We need to bring a more conservation oriented mind to the LMF to truly approach the potential this river has.
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Post by Aaron on Apr 8, 2015 9:16:04 GMT -6
On point Peter. 100% agree! Hopefully here in the next few years we can get a more focused effort together to implement some of the improved measures. Time will tell.
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Post by dainw on Apr 8, 2015 10:07:14 GMT -6
I agree with Peter, that there should be only two places in Oklahoma that state trout records should be acknowledged. In fact, I would take it a step further and say that there should only be one place, and if it is indeed to be considered a state record, then it should be a stream-born fish. Otherwise that fish came from a hatchery and is no different than this fish, or the prior state record. A hatchery born fish, even if it has been in the river for some time, is still different than the state record for say, a blue catfish that was born in that body of water, no? The point I was trying to make with my statement, is that as long as the Oklahoma regulations regarding state records remain the way they are, then it makes no difference to me when that fish was stocked. It's every bit as legitimate in my mind as the prior state record, if not more so because it came from a year round fishery and theoretically may have been in the river for a while. I think the rules should at least be modified to reflect stream-born records and stocked records.
As far as the lower mountain fork regulations go, I think the limit at the blue zones is way too high. Why on earth do you need to keep 6 fish? Maybe they should change that to two fish (from the hatchery) catch and release on all wild fish, and make the red zones strictly catch and release. Or better yet, make everything from the dam down to the EH bridge a red zone.
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Post by mirvc17 on Apr 8, 2015 11:15:05 GMT -6
Totally agree with you Peter. That fish is unnaturally large and not proportioned. A steelhead (of which this fish would be a small one) is a very beautiful strong fish. This one is just an overfed rainbow. Why can't the "record" fish be a wild fish? If LMF is the only reproducing trout stream in the state, so be it.
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Post by brandon on Apr 8, 2015 11:50:46 GMT -6
I have a small cabin near beavers bend but I am not familiar with Illinois river. where do you go to access the trout fishing areas? is there a park similar to beavers bend?
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Post by dainw on Apr 8, 2015 12:14:34 GMT -6
Brandon,
There are several good access points on the Illinois River, all of which are in and around the town of Gore. The Illinois river runs more or less parallel to highway 100 which runs through Gore (i take the webbers falls/gore exit off of I-40). The area right below the Dam is very popular, with good access, although you're probably prone to run into a lot more bait chunkers up there, who really can be pretty rude sometimes when it comes to fishing in your hole. That's where this fish was caught.
I usually fish the Watts area. There's a sign for the access right off of highway 100 in Gore. It's about about a mile and a half below the dam. There's a really good hole right below the parking lot (lot sits up on a cliff). I believe this is one of the stocking points. But anywhere from the parking lot hole south is good fishing, and the river is pretty much loaded with fish right now. I usually will park in the watts area and follow the trail down to the USGS stream guage. This is the beginning of the "red zone" same regs as the evening hole. From the gauge down to the gravel pit county road is all red zone, but the best fishing is usually between the the gauge and a large riffle area that people call the rock garden.
I've also heard the Marval Trout camp area can be productive, but have never fished it myself. Right now the river is loaded with fish and there aren't a lot of bad spots to fish really. I'd stay above Marval at least though. I don't know that they stock further down than that. Once it starts to get hot though, you'll want to stay closer to the dam, because that's where the coldest, most oxygenated water will be. If they don't generate for several days the river can warm up. Plus, stripers from the Arkansas river move into the system in the summer and can decimate the trout population if there aren't any shad. Best time for me is usually October through about right now. Bring a lot of midges and woollys with you. I think the number one fly down there is a zebra midge. RS2s, Rainbow Warriors, Wd40s, Ruby Midges, lightning bugs, small pheasant tails are all effective. In the winter a white woolly can be absolutely deadly if there are shad in the river.
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Post by breeden3 on Apr 8, 2015 12:30:27 GMT -6
I agree that only wild trout should be included as records as well. Contrary to many beliefs, there are some big wild rainbows in the LMF. Notice all the large fish that came to spawn this fall with the beautiful red stripes and full fins, and now they have moved back down to wherever they hold the rest of the year. There are some monsters up Spillway as well, but some of those pools are so deep they will never get caught, and they ignore all bait and lures. The problem I see is that there wouldn't really be any way to be 100% sure if the fish was wild or a holdover that has "turned" wild and taken on wild characteristics. In my opinion, if a rainbow has been in the LMF for 6+ months, that fish has turned wild and has taken on the colors and habits of wild fish. I do believe either of those fish should be eligible. There are several holdover fish that the guides have become very familiar with for a LONG time now. I think one of the funniest and dumbest misconceptions is that these fish don't have a big enough food source to survive or that they will get the "ick" and die. Those beliefs by some people are just plain false. Our food base is incredibly diverse and big trout have NO problem surviving. And as people are seeing with the high water, there are a lot more wild fish than people realize.
Dain, it would be an absolute dream to have from the Spillway to the EH bridge all Red Zone. Unfortunately, I doubt that would ever happen. However, we could potentially target a smaller area of Spillway, say from the old washed out bridge at Cardiac down to the Bottom of the island up Spillway. They don't really stock up there anyways and it is the sight of major spawning for our bows and browns. That would create a quality wild trout fishery, for about a half mile. And I know what you meant about the record. I wasn't trying to bash you, although I realize it could be taken that way. I agree, as the records are now, it absolutely qualifies. It should definitely be changed. We as fly fisherman have to become more passionate about this river and talk to the right people to try and effect change. Show why the river needs to be more properly managed. The benefits it would have for everybody. And the limit is insane. Nobody needs 6 fish a day. 2 or 3 would be a lot better, and I see that as something that could happen. We have to form a united front though. They don't take the fly fisherman presence seriously.
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Post by dainw on Apr 8, 2015 14:40:42 GMT -6
Well it is Oklahoma after all. The mentality here is that people fish for food. The trout fisheries in this state are more or less managed that way. I don' think when the state started stocking trout in Oklahoma that they thought they'd ever wind up with a river that's capable of producing wild trout and has found it's way onto the list of top 50 tailwaters in the country. It really is a special river and I think sooner or later the ODWC will wise up to just how much money our sport brings into the local economy and will make some moves to protect the wild trout populations. It's crazy to me, the limit is the same at the LMF as it is at the White River in Arkansas, which has 60 miles of fishable water and a fish hatchery 30 minutes down the road to sustain it. I'd say the LMF has done ok though in spite of the regulations.
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Post by brandon on Apr 8, 2015 14:56:16 GMT -6
dainw - thanks for the reply and advice. Very detailed and helpful.
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Post by dainw on Apr 8, 2015 15:12:12 GMT -6
No problem, I might also add that if you do go, make sure and check the generation schedule on the southwest power administration's website. If they're generating it's not worth making the trip (I've found that out the hard way). Don't be afraid to explore the river a little bit. If you're willing to walk a little bit you can get into some pretty good fishing and have a lot of water to yourself. That riffle I talked about on the south end of the watts area is good and there's about a 300 yard flat above it that's always got fish in it. It's about a mile walk from the parking lot though so it doesn't see nearly as much pressure.
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Post by jcw355 on Apr 8, 2015 15:19:06 GMT -6
Right now the generation schedule cant be trusted. They are doing maintenance on the turbines so generation was zero, but for awhile it was 2800 cfs from the conduit gates. Normally when the lake is above 632 the schedule can't be trusted as much as when its below 632.
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Post by dainw on Apr 8, 2015 16:17:52 GMT -6
JCW...they're doing maintenance on the turbines at tenkiller as well?
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Post by jcw355 on Apr 8, 2015 17:07:36 GMT -6
Yes, I'm surprised they slowed the water down from the conduit/ sluice gate. Today was another fishable day. In years past, when the lake was above 632, they would run water till it got down or close to 632. Also the Norfork in Arkansas is doing maintenance, stay away from there.
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Post by dainw on Apr 8, 2015 18:35:38 GMT -6
So is there a way to figure out if the river is fishable before making the two and half hour drive?
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Post by wardw on Apr 8, 2015 18:47:21 GMT -6
There's no way to predict releases, but you can always check out the usace site to see what has been happening recently (and then cross your fingers and make the drive) Tenkiller/lower Illinois river
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Post by jcw355 on Apr 8, 2015 18:48:29 GMT -6
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