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Post by tsfarling on Dec 6, 2016 7:30:55 GMT -6
Although they are a different species, browns share nearly identical spawning habitats and habits as rainbows. The idea of them only spawning if they are born in a river is not correct. That is a myth. The Chattahoochee is a perfect example of that. The rainbows have done better than browns because every two weeks several thousand rainbows are dumped into the river whereas a couple times a year the LMF gets a shipment of browns. It's all about adult spawning numbers and total population. The population of browns in the LMF is a lot smaller than that of rainbows but again we do not know exactly how many adults are spawning of each species. When you say successfully spawning, are we talking about percentages or volume of off-spring? If we state it that way then maybe the 50 brown trout that are in the river are 50% successful at spawning because 25 spawn and the rainbows are 30% successful because 300 of 1,000 spawn (but in reality their numbers would have a greater impact on the population) So, I would say that spawning is better with rainbows due to the larger amount of spawning events occurring such as what we're seeing now and that reason is because the volume of rainbows in the population is much greater. Hopefully that makes sense. Tyler can you offer any insight as to why rainbows seem to be more successful spawning in the river than Browns? I know technically Browns are more closely related to Atlantic salmon than they are rainbows but what does that mean in terms of ability to spawn in the LMF? Do they prefer a different type of habitat than rainbows? Different temperature range, dissolved oxygen, etc? Is there any truth to the statement that Browns have to be born in a river to actually spawn there or is that just a myth? It seems like the rainbows have done better than the Browns but is that just because Browns represent such a disproportionately smaller portion of the overall population? SaveSaveSaveSave
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Post by Fenwick on Dec 6, 2016 8:47:07 GMT -6
I have been thoroughly enjoying this entire discourse. Thank you all!
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Post by golferjeff on Dec 6, 2016 8:47:49 GMT -6
Remember the old S curves down from the bluffs? That was a prime Brown spawning area a few years back. The fast shallow water could have 10-15 pairs at a given time. It was very cool to watch. The main problem with it was people walking right thru that area on their way from bluffs to the confluence hole. It seems likely that several successful brown spawns were snuffed out by traffic. A lot of us did see some brown fry the next spring, especially in the area of dead water over by the old stump. Those of you that fished up there in 2012-2013 timeframe will remember the area.
I still keep daydreaming of rainbows for the cookers and Browns for the CPR guys.
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Post by tsfarling on Dec 6, 2016 12:45:23 GMT -6
I really wish I could've seen this river before all the flooding. I lived here 7 years and never knew about it.
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Post by golferjeff on Dec 6, 2016 16:31:16 GMT -6
2013 fall was a banner year for spawning. Little Browns everywhere by March 2014. The bluffs tailout and the slackwater back towards the dam were loaded with them. Big rainbows were chowing down on them too when they got into faster water. Those were the days!
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Post by jonbo on Dec 6, 2016 17:34:04 GMT -6
Lower Spillway Creek, too. I remember one late spring it was loaded with little browns, probably the year that Jeff mentioned. The next spring I couldn't keep baby rainbows from taking my nymphs. So I know that in the fairly recent past the LMF has had a fairly active population of stream born trout.
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Post by TAStockton on Dec 6, 2016 18:14:48 GMT -6
It makes me sick to think what the river would be like if the floods never happened. The spawning was getting so good, and like Jeff said, the browns in the S curves were so awesome to see. Great thread guys, fun read. Hope to see some of you on the water next month. Don't be shy, I'll be the bearded guy verbally assaulting the palominos.
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Post by mirvc17 on Dec 6, 2016 18:34:34 GMT -6
I've been trying to catch a particular palomino at Medicine Creek for my last few outings. It's in a particular stretch of water that hardly gets angling pressure so I think it should stick around for a while. The explicits were flying though!
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Post by golferjeff on Dec 6, 2016 23:24:21 GMT -6
It makes me sick to think what the river would be like if the floods never happened. The spawning was getting so good, and like Jeff said, the browns in the S curves were so awesome to see. Great thread guys, fun read. Hope to see some of you on the water next month. Don't be shy, I'll be the bearded guy verbally assaulting the palominos. And tossing dry flies.
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Post by greenman on Dec 11, 2016 21:22:34 GMT -6
Tyler, Any news on the vibert boxes? Did you get to check'm all out?
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Post by golferjeff on Dec 12, 2016 10:22:29 GMT -6
Most boxes were left in as more eggs needed to hatch. I am sure Tyler will chime in later with details. I got to meet and talk to him Saturday in EH.
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Post by greenman on Dec 12, 2016 19:21:56 GMT -6
Jeff, Thanks for the update.
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Post by Fenwick on Dec 12, 2016 22:10:08 GMT -6
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Post by tsfarling on Dec 13, 2016 6:53:56 GMT -6
90 CFS, yuck. Any spawning that occurred shouldn't be effected by that low of a flow. Vibert boxes may become exposed though. We saw 50-70 alevin in the bottom of one of the vibert boxes. They were flopping all over the place down there. They needed a few more days or so to finish up consuming their yolk sacs before they will emerge from the boxes. Didn't see a lot of dead eggs. I estimate that there were probably 15-30 at the most per box and 0 in some. I will sample these areas in the spring and hopefully find quite a few 2-4" fish. I'll keep you posted.
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Post by Fenwick on Dec 13, 2016 7:01:02 GMT -6
Tyler, it's probably been asked of you before but how is the baton to be passed when it comes time that your own studies of the river conclude? Seems the work you do should be an ongoing thing. Just curious. - Fenwick
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Post by tsfarling on Dec 13, 2016 7:08:49 GMT -6
Well, that will depend on funding and availability of a new graduate student or PhD. candidate wanting to take on another project. A lot more can be done and my study is a very preliminary investigation sort of thing. Hopefully it is something that ODWC can use to help manage the fishery and then in a few years do another study to see how the changes have effected it. We call that adaptive management and it is the most common form of management in fisheries. Make a change, see what happens, then make more changes if necessary. In most trout fisheries, ongoing surveys are done and that would be a good start once an established population occurs. Beginning a long-term project like that would be a big undertaking though with such a small staff.
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Post by Fenwick on Dec 13, 2016 7:14:20 GMT -6
Thanks for all you do and for what you post! I hope the powers that be find such studies of the LMF a worth cause for funding and ongoing research.
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Post by tsfarling on Dec 13, 2016 17:36:30 GMT -6
Does anybody have pictures of these wild brown juveniles form the S curves or Spillway in general? I'd really like to see those if possible.
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Smallfry
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Post by Smallfry on Dec 14, 2016 15:55:32 GMT -6
How did everyone find out about the boxes? I kept waiting for an email to go help out with that and this will be the 3rd year I've missed out. On another note, I miss Lost Creek! Sure was a great little stretch of water for me.
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Post by jonbo on Dec 14, 2016 16:43:01 GMT -6
I didn't get no notice neither.
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Post by tsfarling on Dec 14, 2016 21:29:14 GMT -6
The boxes were supposed to come weeks ago and then it just kind of happened that they got approved to come into the state. There was a hold up with some diseased eggs at the hatchery they came from so they had to be cleared before they came into Oklahoma. I think it ended up being very last second.
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