March Browns

[hankinsfly]

Can anyone tell me what march browns to anticipate? Nymphs and adults? I'm guessing 14's. thanks

[golferjeff]

12-16. Wet flies swung work best for me.

[paul01]

The fish will aggressively rise to a size 14 March Brown dry fly.

[dainw]

14 seems to be about the magic number. Nymphs, wets, emergers, cripples, dries all have their place and will be effective during various stages of the hatch. When they're keying on the duns, you can get some really explosive takes and it's a lot of fun, but be prepared to imitate the rest of the life cycle as well bc they don't always key on the duns.

[jonbo]

What would be a MB nymph? A Pheasant Tail in a 14? I usually fish those and Hare's Ear Nymphs in riffles. I don't know what species nymph they're imitating there, but they've worked for me since I started fly fishing these rivers in 2012. I don't seem to have as much luck with them in the somewhat slower water like in Evening Hole when you get down to the drowned tree if you're coming from above (the rock pile). Do March Brown nymphs move through areas like that and get consumed on their way to hatching?

[dainw]

I think both of those are probably as good of imitations as any for a march brown nymph. Both are sort of generic mayfly nymph imitations. You can go buy/tie dedicated March brown nymph patterns, but don't know that they work any better than those two.

I think in general, fish are just harder to catch in the evening hole right now. Those fish see a lot of pressure and there aren't as many stockings as other spots in the river, so the fish aren't as dumb. Probably safe to say that there's a little bit of everything going through there, mayflies, midges, caddis etc, but last time I was there they were keyed on tiny midges.

[jonbo]

Talking to Jeff last weekend, and then something Peter said, I think the ticket at EH might be dry-dropper. Jeff had good success with dry-dropper. Peter says he thinks the fish at EH have become quite indicator shy. They notice an indicator they clamp their jaws and hunker down or clear out. For the time being (until the fish figure THAT out, if they do), using a dry, something like a Stimulator or big Elk-hair Caddis powdered up real good, for your "indicator", I think may be productive. That and very light tippets. Peter also made the remark that much of EH is quite even depth. The reason I often avoid fishing dry-dropper is it's pretty inconvenient to adjust the length of your dropper tippet. Well, at Evening Hole you shouldn't have to do that too much.

[golferjeff]

The EH fish are even stimmy shy at times. A perfect downstream drift is sometimes necessary to get into fish. If the fish key on March Browns, it may be a little less necessary. MB's and Hex seem to bring out the eagerness in LMF fish.

[dainw]

Dry dropper is becoming my go to rig anytime the water is relatively shallow like in the evening hole and/or you're dealing with spooky fish. I don't even know that the fish are necessarily indicator or stimi shy in the evening hole, I think they are just incredibly selective. I had an equal number of fish on my last trip eat flies under and indy as I did under the stimulator. My biggest fish was mid-evening hole on a stonefly under a thingamabobber. Problem with the Indy is that it usually splashes down hard and spooks fish in skinny water. Stimi/dropper rig was good even on crane creek and those were the spookiest fish I've ever seen.

[hankinsfly]

See "March Browns" in Fly Tying, tell me what ya think

[jonbo]

I've never given dry-dropper a real chance except when a guide "made me" in the Great Smokies. Those were some spooky little trout in small creeks. It was fun! Then I went away from it again, forgot about it, basically. Do 'yall use great big flies like Stimulators for the dries? Will just a size 14 Elk Hair Caddis work? I'm thinking in the EH, if you need the dropper to get deep you wouldn't really use a tungsten bead fly, but basically an unweighted one and just enough splitshot. So that you don't overweight the dry, I'm thinking. Would that be the right thing?

Also, for spooky fish, what about a yarn indicator. I sometimes use a hunk of macrame yarn and capture it with a slipknot in the tippet or rubber band. Do 'yall think that's maybe less off-putting to the EH trout than say a Thingamabobber? I know it lands pretty lightly on the surface.

[mirvc17]

Jonbo,

I think it really depends on the water you're fishing. When I choose a dry fly, I try to keep two things in mind: 1) What is hatching or has been hatching lately. 2) Will this dry fly hold my intended dropper without sinking often.

If I can use a dry fly that is close to what's on the water then I might get some takes on it. If my dry fly can't support my dropper for at least a couple of casts before it needs to be dressed again then maybe it's not buoyant enough. I've used plenty of small tungsten mayfly and midge patterns (size 18 or smaller usually) as well as unweighted or lighter weight ones. Just depends what depth you are trying to achieve.

I'm a big fan of yarn (wool, rather) indicators. They land softly and are super sensitive to strikes. I really like the New Zealand Strike Indicator, but I've also used Pat Dorsey's yarn indicator tool/setup which essentially uses orthodontic rubber bands to secure the wool with. It leaves a small bend that you can usually straighten out reasonably and not a kink that sometimes the micro tubing that the New Zealand tool leaves. "They" say it doesn't kink your leader, but it does a little bit. I think wool can have a huge advantage in some circumstances over Thingamabobbers. I still use bobbers too because there are times you need to. A good tip for Thingamabobbers: To prevent them from kinking/scarring your leader badly, take a pair of needle nose pliers and pull out the small metal ring in the hole so there is nothing but plastic there. Be careful not to break the attachment hole. I've found this to help a lot.

Back to dry flies. Stimulators are great because they float so well. You can usually find them in smaller sizes too, so you don't have to go with a big obnoxious size 6 or 8. On the Cimarron in Sep I could have used a stimulator, but the stoneflies are long gone. A tan size 14 Elk Hair caddis was the way to go.

[hankinsfly]

I've had some good dry/dropper fishing with doped up comparaduns and parachutes. I think Gink works well but there are lots of products out that probably work just as well. I have not tried any dry fly shake, but would like to. I posted some home-tied parachutes under the March Brown thread which float well. I like the tail of antron or z-lon- they add more floatability, flash, maybe the appearance of a trailing shuck, and they hold more floatant than a couple of coq de leon barbs. For picky fish though, natural feather barbs might get more takes than antron or z-Lon. I like white palsa, as well as these new bobbers I found made of cork, natural brown on bottom and painted on top. They land fairly hard but not as bad as thingamabobbers.

[dainw]

Bottom line is, you can use any dry that will float your dropper. I pretty much only use stimis in a size 12-14. Easy to see and you can hang a lot of weight off of one. Also, you'd be surprised how many takes you get on the dry, even in the middle of winter.

[Fenwick]

I've got a bunch of 40 yr. old size 14 Catskill pattern March Brown nymphs I've got to try on the LMF. I'll find out how they do soon enough.

Thingamabobbers Out with the old...

In with the new...
Air-lock strike indicators in the 1/2 inch and 3/4 inch sizes suit my leader better.
The relatively new 1/2 size added to the original Air-lock product line would replace a small stick on Palsa.
The 3/4 size Air-lock would replace the 3/4 inch size Thingamabobber.
The fly shop stocks them.
Just sayin'.
www.fishairlock.com

[mirvc17]

I've gotta get me some of those white Palsas. Palsa's are great for putting them 12-16" above any tiny dry fly you can't hardly see or an emerger in the surface film. What cork bobbers did you find?

Fenwick, Air-Lock indicators do have some advantages over Thinga's...definitely in the adjustability speed department. I think they are ok, I use them occasionally. Again, despite what they say, they can kink or dent your leader. If you lose the screw top, you're...screwed. They are a little bit heavier than even the largest Thingamabobbers and don't roll cast quite as easily. Removing the metal grommet on the Thingamabobber vastly reduces kinks and decreases weight--they should just manufacture them without it on honestly.

While disposable, Palsas are great because they weight absolutely nothing, don't splash down and are highly visible. People complain about them leaving a residue, but I find I can clean it up well enough with my fingers to where it's basically gone.

Anyone (still?) use indicator putty? I have some Loon Biostrike, but haven't used it for a couple of months. Sometimes it has it's uses and you can precisely control how much you need. I'm surprised, because I've had the same tub of it for going on 4 years and it's like it's still new--not dried up or anything. Since it's reusable, most of it hasn't even been touched. It doesn't splash too bad, but eventually starts to get a little water logged. Occasionally it comes off your leader on casts and gets lost to the bushes, or downstream...but at least it's biodegradable. Does leave a little residue on the leader, but not terrible.

[dainw]

You know you guys could just skip all this debate about what bobber to use by throwing a dry fly right? Plus you don't have to carry around all the guilt associated with fishing nymphs.

TA told me to say that 😉

[jonbo]

Jan 25, 2017 12:33:53 GMT -6 dainw said:

Bottom line is, you can use any dry that will float your dropper. I pretty much only use stimis in a size 12-14. Easy to see and you can hang a lot of weight off of one. Also, you'd be surprised how many takes you get on the dry, even in the middle of winter.

I got some stimi's in a 12 that I tied some time back. I'm thinking of dedicating part of the day next time I go to fishing the EH with them as the base for a DD set-up. I've only fished DD desultorily (is that a word?) and not had luck to speak of, yet, kind of like my streamer fishing (except sometimes with a WB). So I'll have to make myself stick with it awhile if the fish don't start banging it right off.

[hankinsfly]

Jonbo- it's easy to go immediately to your go-to's if you don't get action right away on your DD's and streamers, or any other new method. I always tell myself I'm gonna fish strictly this way or that way in a trip. Just don't give up. I love a good streamer bite. Swinging, stripping, banging the banks out of a boat. I like the dry-dropper. I find I need to be more deliberate and careful when casting a DD.... those tangles can be gnarly. JP- I'll bring or mail you some white palsas. Dain- I know what you mean, but I have to argue, a dry fly used as a bobber is essentially still a bobber, just one that looks like a big ole something worth eating to a trout.

[mirvc17]

Ha Dain...

But then I'd have to tie a dry fly onto the _butt_ section of my leader out west here at Medicine Park where you need your flies to get 327.8999 feet deep to the fish. I'm primarily a nymph fisher...there, I said it...guilt free too!

[dainw]

Jan 25, 2017 18:56:11 GMT -6 hankinsfly said:

Dain- I know what you mean, but I have to argue, a dry fly used as a bobber is essentially still a bobber, just one that looks like a big ole something worth eating to a trout.

[br

That's why you leave nymph off 😉

[dainw]

All joking aside, I don't think there's a one size fits all indicator for every situation. Sometimes a big thingamabobber is what you need sometimes a palsa is better. Just depends on what's going.

JP you'd be surprised how much weight a stimi can support. Last trip up to LMF I was fishing a tandem rig below a size 12 stimulator that consisted of size ten stonefly nymph and a size 14 tungsten euro jig and was fishing pretty deep around the rock pile.

[troutbum54]

You could always go with both

[mirvc17]

I've got a couple of those stuck to the interior of my truck roof.

[jonbo]

I'm tying me up a couple of them things, today! Then I'm going to try to come up with an adjustable tippet attachment system, so that the bobber/fly is adjustable on the leader, yet while fishing it is firm so that if a fish attacks it, it doesn't slide. Can anyone think of such a system?