LMFRF Meeting

[golferjeff]

 I am sure Pat will put something up on the website soon, but here is the short version of the LMFRF meeting Friday night.


The Old Park dam cold water project is dead.  It will not be done.  No re-dos, no cleanouts, no fixes.  The board is looking to use their funds in other places.


Officer Carter from the PArk Rangers was in attendance and gave the longest speech/discussion.  A lot of the usual, understaffed, limited in power, hope for the future.  We will have a new park GM soon.  I think they said his name was Aaron Maibe?  At least he was a police officer at one point.  He has been at Robbers Cave park for a few years.  There is at least some optimism for more enforcement in the future.  There was some dialogue about why the Rangers can't enforce some of the laws (trout limits, poaching, etc), but I tuned out when it got political.  I fish to escape politics.  The new bridge has hit a few more snags, but it should be up before school is out.  We shall see.  Those of you that want to see some campground renovations will be happy.  Buckeye, Fern, and others will be seeing some upgrades this year.  It may or may not involve new bathrooms and shower facilities.  Most of the money is going toward the park campgrounds, but some is going to the lake.  Carter also discussed the logistics of the planned casino just outside Beavers Bend.  There had been some discussions about making the park a daily fee access area, but it didn't make it through OKlahoma senate.  Apparently the local constituents cannot afford the entrance fees.


The valves at spillway creek are NOT fixed yet.  This is why spillway was flowing at twice the normal rate recently.  The ODWC said the COE plans to fix them in March.  They hope to have it done in one day.  The flows from spillway will again be shut off for however long it takes for the divers to get the valve fixed.  As we all know, the COE is always true to their word and makes great decisions on water flows.  With the lake having risen almost 20 feet in one week, we are back above pool.  As far as anyone could tell, there was no plan to shut down the powerhouse generators.  With decent weather in the forecast, the lake does not appear to be a threat.


The ODWC advised that fish from the lake and residents of the stream should not be eaten.  High levels of mercury have been detected.  Good news for the CnR guys.... not so much for the bucket brigade.  Ranger1965 said he eats his crappie from the lake all the time and he turned out fine.  His son, however, is another story.     I don't pretend to know what mercury does to humans or how much of it is tolerable.  I don't eat fish.  Take the news at face value I guess.  ODWC warned us anyway.  

The board of LMFRF flatly stated that "what you see now on the river is what you are going to get."  After the bridge is done, no more work is planned on the river.  The rockpile will stay.  EH is done.  No more heavy equipment (Grant's Tonka toys) on the river.  No cypress run.  It did not sound like any other agency could get anything done either.  

The bug people talked about insects in the LMF.  Apparently we have an abundance of bug life.  Bio diversity is strong in Zone 3.  Pure biomass is best right at the spillway.  The floods did cleanse a bit, but they have mostly come back.  NO mystery here, but midges, mayflies, black flies, and some caddis in spillway.  Mayflies thru the red zone.  The researchers were puzzled by a mass of woolly bugger flies below PH bridge.  Odd colors too.....    Our trout both old and new are eating well, which is good news.

The mystery fly event was short, wet, and frustrating for most.  Thunderstorms chased most off the river.  Money was raised though, but bad weather kept more than a few at home.  Size 16 or 18 prismatic emerger was the fly.  I believe the winner caught 7 fish, 19 participants caught zero.  Silent auction items raised about a $1000.  The tournament raised about $2500 if my math is right.  

I saved the best news for last.  With the lack of places to use funds, the LMFRF is going to buy fish.  It sounds like they are in discussions with groups about how many and when.  Not rainbows.  I voted for Splake and Cutthroats, but I'll settle for Browns.  I hope they include more news on this item soon.

Rob Woodruff (bug guy, guide, Mystery Fly chair) announced he is heading for Montana soon.  I'll put the name here, let me know if it is not allowed.  BLue Damsel Lodge.  The foundation is looking for a new Chair/Host for future events.  We'll miss Rob, but a private lodge in MOntana sounds a lot better than dealing with the LMF summer patrons.  We wish Rob and Jenny well.

I am sure there was more, but fell into a sugar coma from ice cream and cake.  Smallfry's daughter was wired too.

Enjoy.

[turfdawg]

When you say nothing to the rock pile did that include not opening the other side after the bridge?

[okieman71]

Sounds as if those in control want a put and take fishery. Nothing more nothing less. So it is. The White river is not that far away. Pretty sad that they aren't even planning to redo the Red Zone between the bridges.

[jonbo]

Well, put-and-take it is, then. I'm sure I'll still come to fish as it's somewhat local to me, and more water than the other put-and-take fishery (by necessity) that I fish regularly. If I lived further off I'm sure I'd be thinking of other places right now, though. I feel fortunate to have experienced the glory days of LMF. Thanks, Jeff, for the good write-up.

[golferjeff]

There was no mention of put and take, quite the opposite. I know I didn't mention P&T above. Fish are holding over and thriving in Spillway Creek. They are actually undertaking a study to sample some wild* or long holdover fish to monitor things like disease, age, lineage, and growth rates. It is also why the foundation is considering putting browns into strategic places - to see them grow and thrive.

Not sure what you mean, Bill? rockpile will stay as-is. The bridge will open soon and all the water will be fishable.

[Smallfry]

That kid barely even had any sweet tea. I even tried to bait her to sit down with some of that tasty cobbler, didn't work. She talked the hour drive home too.

[turfdawg]

Jeff, I think when you said no Cypress run it probably answered the question I was asking. I really liked fishing the backside of the rock pile before they shut it down when they started working on the new bridge. I was just hoping they would open that side back up when they were finished with the bridge.

[jonbo]

Ah, yeah, I was being overly negative in my disappointment that they don't plan to fix up the area around the rock pile or anything. Sorry.

[schrederman]

Jeff, just read the foundation report. The new manager's first name is Erin... not Aaron. This sounds like the new manager will be a lady. If that's true, I hope she likes fly fishing... I won't say that's definitely a feminine name, but every Erin I've even known was female, and every Aaron, (including my son), was male. I hope that doesn't turn out bad for the trout fishery. But like others have said, it doesn't sound like they're going to try to recover it to it's former glory. Arkansas is a little further up the road for me, but... What a beautiful place it was in pre-flood days...

[dainw]

Guys I don’t know of a lot of rivers in this part of the country (Oklahoma, Missouri, Arkansas) that aren’t managed for put and take fishing. The north fork of the white above norfork lake and the the wild trout creeks in Missouri are the only rivers I can think of that are truly managed for wild trout and regulated with the fly fishing community in mind. Other than that, the vast majority of public waters in this region are put and take fisheries. Even the famous Arkansas tailwaters are primarily put and take rivers. On the white river, of the 60 or so miles of river that hold trout, maybe like a mile and a half of it is special regulation water. Have you guys not had a shore lunch yet? What about been fishing with a bait guide that chums the river with salmon eggs (legal on the white)?

With all due respect, I don’t know how realistic it is to think the old LMF is coming back. What’s the point of dumping a bunch of money into bringing back the old EH when they’re just gonna have to blow it out again in a couple of years? Don’t want to get too political here (sorry Jeff), but climate change is a real thing and floods like we’ve seen recently are probably going to become a lot more common. We damn near had another one this weekend. 2 more days of steady rain and it would’ve been close the park and 40,000 CFS down spillway again. Crazy how we can go from having to hold back water from the spillway because of lack of water in the lake to 20% into the flood pool in a matter of days. Besides, the Corp doesn’t manage the dam for fishing, they manage for flood control.

Anyways, off my soapbox. I think the LMF has a potential to get back to where it was in terms of quality of fishing. It may never look like it did, but the fishing can be as good if not better. What the LMF really needs is a couple of years with stable flows, without any major flooding or valve closures or work on the generators. If that happens, fishing will be as good as it’s ever been there. I know people don’t like the new spillway, but I bet habitat and likely holding water has doubled from the old spillway creek. Evening hole is still pretty darn good, and I actually like the rock pile and the runs on either side of that. LMF has bug life and habitat to support a good population of wild and holdover trout. It’s just had some bad luck the last couple years.

[jonbo]

Good ole morale boosting Dain! I just got a  little pissy when I discovered they weren't planning to do any more fix up work around the rock pile or bluffs. I have achieved acceptance. Oooommmmm

[Smallfry]

Feb 26, 2018 15:08:10 GMT -6 schrederman said:

This sounds like the new manager will be a lady.

The park ranger man used "he", "him" in reference quite a bit if I'm recalling things properly.

[dainw]

Feb 26, 2018 15:08:10 GMT -6 schrederman said:

Jeff, just read the foundation report. The new manager's first name is Erin... not Aaron. This sounds like the new manager will be a lady. If that's true, I hope she likes fly fishing... I won't say that's definitely a feminine name, but every Erin I've even known was female, and every Aaron, (including my son), was male. I hope that doesn't turn out bad for the trout fishery. But like others have said, it doesn't sound like they're going to try to recover it to it's former glory. Arkansas is a little further up the road for me, but... What a beautiful place it was in pre-flood days...

I’m just curious here, what does the gender of the new park manager have to do with their attitude toward fly fishing? You seem to be implying that a female park manager would be bad for fly fishing or at least worse for fly fishing than a male park manager?

[dannys]

In the famous words or Astro the dog--"Ruh-Roh Reorge." Good question, Dain.

[golferjeff]

Aron or Aaron is a guy. Not sure where Pat got Erin from. The fact that he was a police officer is a good thing, regardless of gender. New blood could be good too.

[Smallfry]

[turfdawg]

I can hear us now the first time something happens


Ya dun messed up aye aye ron  [click on it]

[hankinsfly]

Here we go, bringing politics into this. Pretty soon y'all will be discussing gender neutral outbuildings in Hickory Hole. By the way, I did use the women's outbuilding in Hickory Hole at Trout Camp. Someone was taking their sweet time in the men's outbuilding. I think it was JP.

[dainw]

Man I’m not trying to bring politics into anything here. I’m generally curious as to why he thinks it would be a disadvantage to have a female park manager that’s all. Is there some kind of inherent bias against fly fishing that female park managers are known to hold? It seemed like a strange assumption to make that’s all.

[hankinsfly]

Dain- I know, I'm just messing around

[todd13]

"There had been some discussions about making the park a daily fee access area, but it didn't make it through OKlahoma senate. Apparently the local constituents cannot afford the entrance fees."

Crazy talk. Why have a fee? To generate some more operating capital so they can "operate things better".
The average person visiting, spends over $40 on gas coming and going, not to mention other costs. A small fee over time could do wonders for the park budget, if not wasted. Sure the local guy who is going there and pulling out 10 trout each trip doesn't want to pay, but come on...could pay for a Park Ranger to spend 2-3 of his time just enforcing rules and building good will. I think the history of a Park Ranger was centered around just that - enforcement of laws and building good will.

Browns....I am a newby and don't know anything. I wonder if the fishery would benefit if all the browns were catch and release only for 5 years. How would the fishery change? Of course signage would have to be placed everywhere to educate the community. Interesting thought?

[schrederman]

The majority of fly fishers are male. I referred to the spelling of the name in the foundation report... and expressed my hope that this would turn out OK, nothing more. Hopefully, if the new manager is female, she likes fishing. If the new manager is male... heck... he may hate it. I did not imply that if the new manager is female that it would be a bad thing. It might be great. Some of my best friends are female... in fact my VERY best friend is female. You're reading too much into what I wrote... and as Jonbo said... I was just being pissy after learning that the rock pile isn't being at least modified a bit. I just wish I'd found the place many years ago instead of just a very few years before the flooding. If I offended anyone's sensibilities... I apologize...

[golferjeff]

Todd - Browns are catch and release already. There are signs too. All paid for by the LMFRF. Browns are also known for finding better hidey holes. Just ask the guys that know how to fish mid-spillway....

[todd13]

Feb 28, 2018 21:12:32 GMT -6 golferjeff said:

Todd - Browns are catch and release already. There are signs too. All paid for by the LMFRF. Browns are also known for finding better hidey holes. Just ask the guys that know how to fish mid-spillway....

Ooops.  I guess I should have known that.   I release everything anyhow, but I guess I need to read the signs once in a while.   But Peter, I promise I won't release the Brookies this summer.  I am on board.  

[mirvc17]

Jeff, is that a recent change?  The regs say different, or maybe they are not be specific enough...it makes no mention of Brown Trout in the red zone or blue zone for that matter... only in the "general" trout regulations.  If I were a "fish keeper" reading the regs below, I would think that I am able to keep a brown trout in the Red zone if it were >= 20" in size OR I might think that I can't keep a brown at all.

Anyhow, I think the regulations are confusing....I think it should specifically say in both Zones that Brown Trout are Catch & Release only, if that's the case....


Trout Regulations:

•  Brown trout - Daily limit: one; size limit: 20-inch minimum.

• Rainbow trout - Daily limit: six combined from Red and Blue Zones. See Zone regula-
tions below.


Special Regulations by Zone:


Blue Zones: (From the Broken Bow Reservoir spillway downstream to the rst Highway Bridge below the Spillway; from the second Highway Bridge below the Spillway downstream to the State Park Dam; and from the mouth of Rough Branch Creek downstream to U.S. 70 bridge):
• Rainbow trout - Daily limit: six; no minimum size limit.

• Use of bait and barbed hooks is permitted.


Red Zones: Below Broken Bow dam from the  first Highway Bridge below the Spillway downstream to the second Highway Bridge below the Spillway, including the Evening Hole stream channel; and from the State Park Dam downstream to the mouth of Rough Branch Creek):

• Rainbow trout - Daily limit: one; Size limit: 20-inch minimum.

• Possession of any trout less than 20 inches is prohibited.

• Use of bait or barbed hooks is prohibited in the Red Zone. Fishing is restricted to barb-
less hooks, artificial ies and artificial lures only.

Feb 28, 2018 21:12:32 GMT -6 golferjeff said:

Todd - Browns are catch and release already. There are signs too. All paid for by the LMFRF. Browns are also known for finding better hidey holes. Just ask the guys that know how to fish mid-spillway....