5/29/20 Mixed results with the "Euro" method.

[jonbo]

Well, I got to go to BB on Friday. Fished up and down down the EH with my "Euro"-stick, and various nymphs for nada. It was the day after the rain, the air pressure was doubtlessly up, there was bright sunshine. I didn't see a single rise although a few mayflies and caddis were coming off. I eventually put on a Near Deere (little wooly bugger on a jig hook) They went after that, a bit. I caught about 4 in an hour. So there I was tight-lining with a Near Deere, running it the same way, flopping it upstream 10 feet, then walking it down directly below the rod tip, and it was working fairly well. In this case, at least, there was no need for the euro set up at all. I could have swung the streamer with a normal leader, casting just as far as I wanted to, and covered quite a bit more area.

After that, I tried Cardiac Hill. Done with "Euro"-ing for awhile, I took my trust 6 weight out and tried fishing streamers. I went to those enormous pools up there that have kind of waterfalls going into them and ran streamers down through the current lines and seams. Again, nada. I had put some weight on, maybe not enough. Finally I found myself sitting on a rock above a large eddy. I dropped a big old Pat's Rubberlegs down in that, probably with an extra BB split shot besides the big tungsten bead that was on it, and let it swirl around. I immediately pulled 2 fat 13 inch rainbows. -Good old trusty Pat's!- So there I was fishing successfully with a $450, glorified cane-pole. Go figure.

The one thing I have against the euro-method is, if you're not having success getting them to hit nymphs, you're not set up particularly well for anything else. I mean that you can do other things, but it's a long way from ideal. For that reason, I don't know if I'm really enjoying it a lot. Since I like to be able to switch around styles whenever I fish, I may have to go back to mostly indicator nymphing. I do really like the Orvis Recon I bought on close-out for Euro-nymphing though, as its very versatile.

[mirvc17]

Come back to the light Jonbo! I Euro some when stream conditions call for it (but not always). I don’t enjoy the euro lob. We love fly fishing because we can fly cast, after all. Where I fish the most, short-line indicator nymphing just works better on most sections of the river.

If you want to make your Recon “Euro ready”, both Rio and Scientific Anglers make a Euro leader system that has a thin Euro style fly line that loops directly to your standard line and then you loop on the included leader. This allows you to have a Euro “line” that can be easily put on and off and no dealing with long monofilament leaders of bringing an extra rod. I have not tried them though. If I am Euroing it’s on my 10’ 2wt which has a dedicated line for the task. I don’t line carrying two rods though.

[jonbo]

Thanks, Mirv, for the tip. I might try that. The other option I'm considering is buying a second spool for my euro-ing reel, keeping euro-line and leader on one, and standard stuff on the other. I had set myself up to swap out leaders on the Recon. I found, though, that I can't stand oh-so-carefully wrapping and unwrapping that about 35' total euro leader set-up. I end up just trying to do everything while set up for euro with, as I was saying, pretty mixed results. I think swapping out spools might not put me off quite so badly. But yeah, I don't find lobbing the euro set-up to be a lot of fun. The productivity I've gotten from it, if it's better than indicator fishing, has been only marginally so. I do like feeling connected to the bait. There's that. It's one of the reasons I enjoy swinging/stripping a soft hackle or streamer as much as I do. I fully accept that I just haven't begun to master the tight-line method. I remember watching Evan pull fish after fish from Spillway Creek, pretty much at will. But I'm about to return to the, what did you call it, light side? Dark side? Maybe I need more lessons from Evan Juan Kenobe!

[mirvc17]

A separate spool is an option but it’s more expensive and more of a hassle to put on when you’re on or in the river. The Rio/SA kit tips won’t kink like a long mono leader will. The SA kit comes on a little foam wheel for storage.

[jonbo]

Hmmm, interesting. Thanks, Mirv!

[darrelln09]

jonbo /mirvc17 - It's unfortunate that you haven't had many good experiences with Euro Nymphing. I have had so many that I hardly fish with any other method. With the lack of finding any sizable hatches this spring, dry flies have just been pretty much useless. I have a 5wt rod/reel setup for dry flies but I have hardly even put it together this winter/spring. I can also use my 3wt for dry flies if I change out the leader. I usually carry an empty Maxima spool that I can wrap my Euro leader onto if I need to. It has a rubber band around it and a thin plastic cover to keep it from unwinding. It works okay.

To me, there are two major advantages of Euro but the water has to be right for it ... short deep pools and/or fast riffles perhaps with pocket water. Places like Roaring River and Montauk/Current River have both, Crane Creek has the former, and Little Piney Creek has the latter. (Yeah, they are all in the Mark Twain National Forest of Missouri.) Rapid Creek has both, Castle Creek has the former, and Spearfish Creek has the latter. (Yeah, they are all in the Black Hills of South Dakota.)

Advantage #1: dynamic depth control - I have a ton of success lobbing my flies just above a deep pool, letting them roll down into the pool, lowering them deep to the bottom as I go along, and then reversing the process on the way out of the pool. I get bites near the bottom everywhere along the profile of the pool. It would be nearly impossible to do that with a fixed-depth indicator that is too deep at the beginning/end and too shallow at the middle.

Advantage #2: slow down the drift - I use a fairly heavy split shot (BB usually) to get things down to the bottom asap but also to tap along the bottom in order to slow down the drift. The water is much slower down there and I am convinced that slowing down the flies even more gives the finicky fish more time to size them up and then take them. The seams in pocket water are especially deadly when the flies are slowed down. An indicator on the top catches the speed of the current at the top and, I'm pretty convinced, pulls the flies along too fast. It's also too much even in open water when the wind and the current are going in the same direction.

Come on up this way and I'll show you what I mean. 

[jonbo]

I fully accept that its my own lack of proficiency with the system that's the problem.

[darrelln09]

Jun 1, 2020 16:09:51 GMT -6 jonbo said:

I fully accept that its my own lack of proficiency with the system that's the problem.

Ha! I think it's the water.

[mirvc17]

I’ve had great success with it on sections at Waterton Canyon and I’ve killed it on the Cimarron in NM....but for me, most of the sections around the Deckers area, this method doesn’t work as well for me.

Mostly I just don’t enjoy the method. I get bored with it.

[darrelln09]

Jun 1, 2020 16:25:45 GMT -6 mirvc17 said:

I’ve had great success with it on sections at Waterton Canyon and I’ve killed it on the Cimarron in NM....but for me, most of the sections around the Deckers area, this method doesn’t work as well for me.

Mostly I just don’t enjoy the method. I get bored with it.

I haven't hit the boredom stage yet because there have been enough beauties like this McCloud Redband to keep it interesting but I can see how it could. I really miss working on my fly casting technique and using dry flies is normally my stage for that. Last spring brought many opportunities for it but this spring I really haven't found any. 

[lipripper1983]

Could use this (Rio Euro Shorty) when you euro nymph and use a standard WF floating line behind it. Will still be able to throw dries and wets on your euro stick and if you wanna euro style just put the shorty back on. 👍🏻

[darrelln09]

Jun 2, 2020 21:43:55 GMT -6 lipripper1983 said:

Could use this (Rio Euro Shorty) when you euro nymph and use a standard WF floating line behind it. Will still be able to throw dries and wets on your euro stick and if you wanna euro style just put the shorty back on. 👍🏻

I guess I'm not seeing the point of that (other than to extract $29.99 out of you). My Euro rig has standard 3WF Rio Gold floating line on it. I use 15 to 20' of mono line with 5' of various colors of sighter and then 5' or so of fluorocarbon tippet for my Euro leader setup. The Rio Gold rarely comes out past the end of my rod, and when it does, there's probably a nice fish going for a downstream run on the end of it. To fish dry flies, all I do is replace the Euro leader setup with a 9' tapered leader, add a little mono tippet, and I'm good to go.

[mirvc17]

The Euro line has less memory and for sure is better in the hand than mono (I’ve used both). It still has very little sag but probably a touch more than mono.

I do know that I’d rather unwind a 20’ Euro tip than a 25’ Maxima leader when I’m on the water....if you screw up unraveling it it can be a real PITA that tests your patience. I’ve screwed it up a couple of times....

It is a little pricey IMO for a “tip+leader” but it should last a very long time. They know we are gear/tackle freaks that like to get new fishing toys....

You gotta remember they are also taking advantage of all the marketing with the “Euro” craze..... it’s like “Are you Euro curious?? Grab your black jacket, black beret, some cigarettes and this classy new Euro tip....don’t forget we have longer rods for sale too...”

[mirvc17]

“Try our new 20’ 6” -1 WT Ultra Euro (Includes the United Kingdom) Rod. You can lob flies 80 feet. Soft tip protects 9X - 11X tippet perfectly. Balances nicely with this new Sage ESN reel”

NOTE: Ultra Euro rod not recommended on small streams or use near power lines.

[darrelln09]

Jun 3, 2020 12:32:55 GMT -6 mirvc17 said:

The Euro line has less memory and for sure is better in the hand than mono (I’ve used both). It still has very little sag but probably a touch more than mono.

I do know that I’d rather unwind a 20’ Euro tip than a 25’ Maxima leader when I’m on the water....if you screw up unraveling it it can be a real PITA that tests your patience. I’ve screwed it up a couple of times....

I tend to work on the shorter side of "15 to 20' of mono" for my leader. For where I fish, that usually puts the mono-to-fly-line connection no worse than right at the reel. At the shortest point, I like to keep about 1' of fly line showing so I can have it in the hand. At the longest point, i try to keep the fly line no further than the rod tip. What seems to be working for me now is to cast it upstream to the longest point, strip in slowly until my flies pass straight out from me, and then dole out some more line to get a longer downstream drift. I haven't noticed any problem with fly line sag either, with 3WF Rio Gold, perhaps because of the faster water I fish in and possibly the BB (or even AB) split-shot I use to help anchor everything to the bottom.

I've never had a Maxima leader go loco on me but I can see where it could happen. I am currently using my "middleweight" Euro (and U.K., lol) leader design, which includes 12lb Maxima and it has some stiffness to keep it "spring loaded" if I wind it on a spool. I've had a big mess or two when unwinding 9ft mono leaders so I prefer never to have another one no matter what the material is!

[glitchmo]

I appreciate you guys keeping up the good fight and nymphing, but I’ve just had too many ten minute rerigs after a tangle only to tangle again two casts later. Dry dropper from here on out, unless someone else is doing the rigging.

[darrelln09]

Jun 3, 2020 15:25:52 GMT -6 glitchmo said:

I appreciate you guys keeping up the good fight and nymphing, but I’ve just had too many ten minute rerigs after a tangle only to tangle again two casts later. Dry dropper from here on out, unless someone else is doing the rigging. 

I will definitely keep up the good fight on nymphing!

What's funny is that I've fished a dry dropper a total of one time. I felt that the dropper tipped my dry fly too much and didn't allow a good drag-free drift so I never went back to it. I guess I didn't use a large enough dry fly and a small enough dropper to make it work right.

I feel your pain on the rerigs though, not so much from tangles but more from hooking a far-side tree or a low-hanging branch. I met a guy last weekend who has experienced the same problem and said to turn my hat backwards. That way you don't miss those branches that are right above your head! 

[glitchmo]

Oh it absolutely compromises both flies. But I usually fish the water (Like parts of SC) where a five second drift is long. So it doesn’t matter too much.

But yeah, you’ve gotta use a nice floaty dry. You can get away with like a 14-16 wulff if the dropper isn’t to heavy, but anything smaller will sink immediately.

[jonbo]

I think I might have to try out the "shorty", yep. Like Darrell, I run a standard line behind my super duper long "euro"-leader in case I want to fish "catskill". Only, I never change it out because messing with winding/unwinding the euro-leader is such a chore. I already have my black beret and turtleneck, naturally. Or has everyone started switching to purple berets? I saw someone out there in a purple... He/she/^$(?) looked pretty debonaire. Do I have to get new euro-wear gear again already? I can't keep up!

Darrell, once again, jealous. Very nice fish! I keep trying to logistically justify a trip to southern Missouri. Sadly, with family and work as it is, I can't work it out at this time.

[golferjeff]

To up the jelly quotient, I will be spending 72 days in Colorado and Utah this summer. Maybe a little Missouri too. Maybe Yellowstone..... you get the picture. July 1 thru October 5th. Can't wait. Anyone want to come visit me?

[jonbo]

Well, yeah, I want to (Retirement can't come soon enough).

[glitchmo]

Depending on how things go at work I might have some time off for a road trip out to CA through New Mexico, Colorado, and Utah. So yea I’ll definitely hit you guys up if that comes together.